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We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We? 
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Post We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
Hi Everyone,

It seems that the fashion word at the moment is "sociopath". Privately over the last two weeks I've been called one... twice! And Chicodoodoo used the term in a recent post about the price of petrol.

If we look at the 'symptoms' of sociopathy, we all must be one as it looks like they cover every aspect of our lives. Check these symptoms and see if you are a sociopath: http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

I was called a sociopath because I like to read and comment about the economy. Just as a snorkel Parker wearing train spotter stood on the end of a train platform, I have a hobby too! Just as a stamp collector or flower presser each to their own.

For me I like the economy because it tells us more or less the direction we are going to take, it tells us what preparations we might have to make to get over the next hurdle in life, it makes us feel better when times are good etc.. As I have travelled a lot, it's a necessary knowledge so's I could adapt to different countries, like the way things worked and understanding how people think. Different countries have their different ways of doing things.

Now, of course I could be considered rude calling everybody on this forum a sociopath, but that would be if everybody beleived that that condition actually exists. The truth is that most psychological and mental 'disorders' are made up! Yes, made up! They are merely opinions, there are no clinical ways to prove that these 'disorders' actually exist.

This following documentary will explain my position better, it's a bit lengthy and I promise not to accuse anybody of ADD if they don't watch it all! :lol: :

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcuhhJ1BaMk[/youtube]

Best regards.


Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:30 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
Hey Grumple, you are right, the word is overused.

A brilliant and hilarious read is Jon Ronson's the Psychopath Test. The below quote from a review illustrates your point about the medicalisation of normal human behaviour.

Quote:
However, just as this schema does a disservice to the teeming variety of The Psychopath Test, so my use of slang epithets for mental illness glosses over the instability that undermines Ronson's comedic genius. In truth, there's nothing remotely funny about the Stagg case, any more than there is about the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychiatric Disorders), the vast and ever-ramifying catalogue of aberrancy put out by the American Psychiatric Association. The epiphanic moment in The Psychopath Test comes when Ronson asks Robert Spitzer, the editor under whose aegis the DSM expanded from a slim booklet to a biblical tome, whether it's possible that "he'd inadvertently created a world in which some ordinary behaviours were being labelled mental disorders", and Spitzer answers: "I don't know."


Taken from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/ma ... son-review

There are louds of parallels to this also - for example:

Eyes: there is a guy who thinks cataracts and myopia and other eye complaints are just a product of faulty eye movements and he has loads of exercises to help recorrect this.

Dyslexia: Again, some guy thinks (sorry not doing well on specifics) this is down to faulty eye movements, that are not inhibituary.

Addiction: There is nothing physical to it, it's purely psychological.

I'm sure the list goes on.

We end up with this because people are too lazy to look into their ailments themselves and instead are quite happy to go to some higher authority who will tell them what to do, i.e. medication. Unscrupulous pharma takes big advantage of this.


Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:58 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
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nongeneration
A brilliant and hilarious read is Jon Ronson's the Psychopath Test.


You and I have Jon Ronson in common. There is another link here somewhere on UP.

The other side of that "There are no Sociopaths" argument is that some people are bored and somewhat charming psychopaths just noodling around looking for a bit of fun on alternative forums in their spare time. I have tried to spot these characters in the past, watching their MO, trying not to respond if they nudged me personally, and steering well clear of them otherwise.

Not always possible, with psychos on a mission from hell. Classic example: What happened to GW. She tried to get out quickly after realizing she was being targeted and her privacy had been breached on Project Avalon. Certain psychos persisted, she became a TI on Nexus and Avalon and her life was nearly destroyed in the process.

GW responded to a psycho bitch from hell recently even though she stopped blogging last year because she wanted to be left in peace, not left in pieces.

I vowed this sort of thing would not happen to me or my family because of any silly alternative comedia Forum. My eyes wide are open because of what happened to GW on Nexus and Avalon. I guard my personal privacy more zealously. If it's one thing I have learned on these forums it's that there are definitely psychos out there and I refuse to engage them. They thrive on it. Ignore them and they generally fade into the mists.

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Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:40 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
I met him once! Really down to earth guy - I expressed interest in the Ruby Ridge story from his first book, THEM: Adventures with Extremists and he gave me a CD documentary that he had made about it - the last 20 mins of it was scratched though :o

Yes lessons to be learned from these forums - it's more the behaviour of people whom turn a blind eye, it justifies things and bad stuff to be propogated.

I've met many corporate psychopaths in my time - they are usually all confined to the Human Resources department!


Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:55 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
Grumplebum wrote:
If we look at the 'symptoms' of sociopathy, we all must be one as it looks like they cover every aspect of our lives.

Ah, my favorite subject, one that is very much misunderstood.

Since we all oversimplify (as you just did with the above quote), let's try to oversimplify with some attempt at relevance and accuracy.

Sociopaths are primarily identified by their lack of empathy. If we have to oversimplify, and it seems we do, then this is where we should focus.

Quote:
I was called a sociopath because I like to read and comment about the economy.

Given our oversimplified definition, you can now see that accusation is hogwash.

Quote:
The truth is that most psychological and mental 'disorders' are made up! Yes, made up! They are merely opinions, there are no clinical ways to prove that these 'disorders' actually exist.

Another bad oversimplification. Brain scans indicate that there are indeed real differences in brain function between sociopaths and non-sociopaths.

Quote:
This following documentary will explain my position better, it's a bit lengthy and I promise not to accuse anybody of ADD if they don't watch it all!

Yes, there is a great deal of fraud in psychiatry, due primarily to money, but also due to sociopaths congregating in that field. The trend in psychiatry is to label normal people as "sick", and label sociopaths as normal, which is exactly what you would expect from a field dominated by sociopaths.

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Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:46 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
Hi Chicadoodoo,

I hope this is not seen as if I am trying to gang against you as it's the second thread where we seem to be on the opposite side of the spectrum. ;)

There doesn't seem to be any one main trait in sociopathy which makes it difficult to be exact. However, a Dr. Hare considers that a sociopath is probably charming and glib, "smooth, engaging, charming, is not in the least shy or afraid to say anything". This is the exact opposite of what you said being that the sociopath lacks empathy, which incidentally is also in his list.

http://www.sociopathicstyle.com/traits/classic.htm

In other words, if you are too friendly, you are a sociopath, if you are not friendly enough, you are also a sociopath. And there lies in the problem. There is a lot of duality and also who is to say if you are too friendly, or not friendly enough? Surely that is relative.

As for the brain scans clinically proving that sociopaths have a different brain function than a non sociopath, once again you'll have to point me in the right direction to that information.

Surely the psychiatric field is not run by sociopaths? There's seems to be a lot of 'em about. Which is another problem because generalizing like that shows how general the 'guidelines' are.

By the way, once again do you have clinical evidence of this your last affirmation?

Best regards.

Quote:
Sociopaths are primarily identified by their lack of empathy. If we have to oversimplify, and it seems we do, then this is where we should focus.

Another bad oversimplification. Brain scans indicate that there are indeed real differences in brain function between sociopaths and non-sociopaths.

Yes, there is a great deal of fraud in psychiatry, due primarily to money, but also due to sociopaths congregating in that field. The trend in psychiatry is to label normal people as "sick", and label sociopaths as normal, which is exactly what you would expect from a field dominated by sociopaths.


Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:48 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
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point me in the right direction to that information.

I wish we had Chic's thread from nexus. It was about identifying sociopaths.
Imho there is not one thing that will identify it and if you thought there was, giving that Choice to one thing is disastrous.

Time and experience to observe behavior is the only objective course, presently.
Not that investigation of every means possible is not imperative to try and cure us.

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Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:54 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
Hi magamud,

Exactly. You are agreeing with my argument that, according to the so called experts there is no one thing that can point to a sociopath, that the 'symptoms' abrange so much we could all be considered sociopaths, if we consider the psychiatric profession to be correct.

By the way studying behaviour is not objective, it's relative as no-one can say if a person is behaving the wrong way because we all have different opinions of what is 'wrong', unless of course crimes are committed.

There are so many sites on the internet that also give this information / opinion of traits of a sociopath.

If, like me, you consider these just opinions of a group of people based on nothing clinical (see youtube video I posted) then it's not all that important.

Best regards.


magamud wrote:
Quote:
point me in the right direction to that information.

I wish we had Chic's thread from nexus. It was about identifying sociopaths.
Imho there is not one thing that will identify it and if you thought there was, giving that Choice to one thing is disastrous.

Time and experience to observe behavior is the only objective course, presently.
Not that investigation of every means possible is not imperative to try and cure us.


Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:08 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
Quote:
You are agreeing with my argument that

Yes, the probability of a scan to identify evil would get into the hands of liars and be used against us.
Its a slippery fascist slope is what im trying to say.

Its the same dynamic with, who is a possible terrorist in the US.
Everyone is.
When everyone is a suspect you lose something of yourself....

I think the minutia of it is in humanism, morality and deeds...

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Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:29 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
Grumplebum wrote:
I hope this is not seen as if I am trying to gang against you as it's the second thread where we seem to be on the opposite side of the spectrum. ;)

I expect to have my ideas questioned, so I do not see it as a problem.

Quote:
There doesn't seem to be any one main trait in sociopathy which makes it difficult to be exact.

Exactly. It is not yet close to being exact, but it is moving in that direction as we study and learn more.

Quote:
However, a Dr. Hare considers that a sociopath is probably charming and glib, "smooth, engaging, charming, is not in the least shy or afraid to say anything". This is the exact opposite of what you said being that the sociopath lacks empathy, which incidentally is also in his list.

No, it is not the exact opposite. It is a by-product of lacking empathy, as are many of the sociopath's symptoms. Becoming deceptive and manipulative is a direct result of lacking empathy. Charm and boldness are strategies that enhance the ability to deceive and manipulate.

Quote:
In other words, if you are too friendly, you are a sociopath, if you are not friendly enough, you are also a sociopath.

That is faulty, black and white thinking.

Quote:
As for the brain scans clinically proving that sociopaths have a different brain function than a non sociopath, once again you'll have to point me in the right direction to that information.

You should really do your own research, rather than expecting the evidence to be handed to you on a silver platter. There are threads on both Nexus and Avalon with a lot of pertinent information. Here is another potential starting point for you.

Quote:
Surely the psychiatric field is not run by sociopaths?

It's not sure at all. Sociopaths thrive in positions of power and control, like government, the legal field, business, and even medicine. All of these fields have more than their fair share of sociopaths and near-sociopaths.

If you require clinical evidence, check out "Political Ponerology" by Andrzej M. Lobaczewski. You should also look into the history of the making of this book, to understand the suppression and opposition sociopathic organizations actively throw against this kind of investigative science.

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Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:07 pm
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