It is by deliberate design that we do not have the scientific tools needed to accurately measure sociopathy. The technology has indeed been created, but the ruling sociopaths are naturally not going to let us have access to it. So that leaves us deliberately crippled when it comes to assessing sociopaths. The best we have to rely on is "expert opinion". And do you know how easily sociopaths can discredit "expert opinion"? They're the best.

fNMR measurements combined with visual imagery designed to invoke empathy is the best method for identifying sociopaths that I have seen so far. It's accurate and hard to "game", as evidenced by James Fallon's ( 1 2 3 ) surprise discovery of his own sociopathy. Zook has been on a mission to discredit fNMR, which fits his psychological profile. Unfortunately, his "truth-seeking" related to fNMR is just more deception and manipulation, something we are becoming accustomed to.


"Charming" is one of the traits most sociopaths possess. I have several friends who are sociopaths, and they are indeed quite charming. One is a popular entertainer, while another is an evangelist prepper. But they can also be quite nasty, should you "cross" them. Knowing they are sociopaths and recognizing their sociopathic behaviors early makes it much easier, and much safer, to interact with them.

I was at a garage sale last week and stumbled upon a fascinating book that I could tell in short order was written by a sociopath. It's called "I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell" and I have been reading it with an eye towards studying the sociopathy of the author. And it's all there, every characteristic on the check-list of sociopathic identifiers. The guy is a classic sociopath, and most people love him! So many of his behaviors are repulsive, callous, and disturbing, but many people find him to be a "class act". That in itself is a sad commentary on the quality of most people's judgment, as well as a testament to the success of the sociopaths' agenda to mold us in their image.

I actually read that guy and got the impression that a lot of what he was proposing was somewhat tongue-in-cheek beyond the practical applications of his work. Everything you state is spot on as the saying goes. However, while it is true that there are genetic traits that manifest in the 'natural' sociopath, it isn't always a bad thing (I'm sure you realize that). What trips the trigger to the dark side are environmental conditions that ultimately lead to the disturbing behaviors.

Serial killers are the classic example of the dark side with war heroes, as just one example, lying at the other end of the spectrum.

An excellent point. Most normal people would naturally assume that the behavior described by the author is so "over the top" that it has to be tongue-in-cheek! But in fact it's not, it's the natural unrestrained behavior of a sociopath, behavior that's so foreign to a normal person that he would not be inclined to believe it.


That's right. Like I said to Zook, there are advantages and disadvantages to everything, including being a sociopath. Unfortunately, it is also clear that the advantages sociopaths bring to humanity are few, while the disadvantages are many, from the perspective of normal people! Sociopaths see it exactly the opposite.


Yes, like putting a sociopath in a position of power and control over other people who have empathy. Like we do with most politicians.

well, if one believes that power corrupts absolutely, then yes, politicians would be excellent examples.

But, while a sociopath might be a sociopath there are still the elements of good and bad. From negative environmental conditions emerges the 'bad' sociopath and just the same from positive environmental conditions emerges the 'good' sociopath. The raw sociopath is neither good nor bad, just different with all the potentials humans have. I do believe that good politicians exist and this is what usually separates me from the vast majority of forum dwellers. The nature of logical truth dictates that whether we choose to acknowledge it or not that this is a truism.

Here goes my flip floppin'
On the other hand, one could argue that there are those sociopaths that are 'born' to be bad and from a metaphysical perspective I would say, no doubt, so in retrospect I suppose any discussion should first begin with "What are we talking about?"

I hope you recognize that my personal feelings ARE embedded within the words. I emphatically hasten to say, they are not 'hysterical' feelings merely a recognition and reflection of the world we live in AND it is not just my world that I consider, it is your world, as well. Harrumph! And when I write YOUR world I mean to encompass all of humanity.

That's not flip floppin', it's just recognizing the complexity of our world and the fact that things are not as simple (or "black and white") as we would like to believe. That was always the problem I had with Zook, who couldn't see the shades of gray or consider the possibility that his vaunted discernment could be in error.


Yep. And that often takes a lot of work before all are approaching consensus on what they are talking about.


Yep again. That's the way I understand things, from the position of empathy with all others that share this world.

Yours is a great post, Zook. I'm going to spend some time and effort going through it. I really thank you for writing this post. You have again provided us with a great service.

Your quote above reminds me of this post I did yesterday. You are saying nearly the same thing as the passage I quoted in that post. And Hitler is saying nearly the same thing in the book I am reading, Hitler's Secret Book, around page 69 - 70. In fact, your quote is the principal theme of the book. How embarrassing it must be for you that you and Hitler think alike, given all your efforts to vilify Hitler.


This is typical Zook -- the flawed thesis. If you had simply said "there is no tangible difference between man and the other animals", you would have been on fairly solid ground. But you had to add "Lacking philosophy". How do you know other animals lack philosophy? Just because they haven't communicated it with you? Do you really understand the minds of dolphins and elephants so well that you can state they lack philosophy? No, you don't. I don't even think you understand the minds of human beings. A sociopath's understanding of the human mind is already quite different from a non-sociopath's understanding of the human mind, and this is within the same species!


You do it again here. Sociopaths and empaths separate themselves during any period, not just peacetime! And they are different from conception, so "separate" is misleading too! It's errors like these that lead you to the most ridiculous conclusions in your arguments.

Let me skip ahead now to your ridiculous conclusions about me.


That one takes the cake, Zook. No one has fought against censorship in the forums as much as I have. That's why United People came into existence! That's why you've always had an unencumbered voice here, along with anyone else who wanted to speak, including Ruby, andywight, pod, dsimon3387, GypsyWoman, and many more who wanted nothing more than to tear me a new one. No one was censored. All those posts are still intact and visible. And you think your four suspensions were about you being censored? Utter BS. You are still posting here and speaking your mind. If you are suspended again, it will be for willfull trolling, disrupting threads, and annoying people with utter BS, just like the last four times! And you will be warned multiple times to stop those activities before you are suspended, not banned, to give you yet another chance in the future of speaking your mind in a more acceptable manner.


Ha! You just want to make a deceptive argument that will allow you to spotlight your contrived empathy so that you can hopefully shake off your sociopath label that Chico has pinned to your chest!

• There was no mugging. There was only a gang of sociopaths exposing themselves.
• You have no empathy for me or others, as so many of your posts demonstrate.
• Your "rescue" occurred three weeks after the "mugging".
• Your "rescue" had no material substance.

You can call my narrative whatever you want, and you have uncountable times, and it never offends me. It only adds to the evidence of your disingenuousness, deceptions, and attempted manipulations.


Not "once again".

Your sociopathy has been repeatedly documented and confirmed over long experience in this forum. That's one of the reasons I think this post of yours is a great post. It adds to that evidence.


That's exactly what I am looking for -- superior arguments! This comment of yours is once again the sociopath accusing his opponent of his own malfeasance. Replace "Chico" with "Zook" and you will have the exact picture of what you have been doing here, Zook.




Everyone should know it just by reading and understanding this thread! I am especially looking for that superior argument that will prove me wrong about Hitler.



Your deliberately twisted story of what happened at Inphinet is another elaborate deception and manipulation. You just can't help yourself, can you Zook. Don't you see why I identify you as a sociopath? No, you don't, and I realize that. But other people are going to see it.

And the "threat of suspension" never stopped you in the past, Zook! You've been suspended a shameful four times! What's one more to you? You know the behaviors that are typically not tolerated in forums (you've been a moderator for how long?), and you know this forum is probably the most tolerant forum around. So I can only conclude that you deliberately push the limits when you behave badly here. My "threat" of suspending you is just reminding you where I draw the line. If you behave as you would expect others to behave in a forum you moderate, there is no threat, and there is no suspension.

Hi Chico,

I guess since we seem to be on the same wavelength we have nothing to discuss. (Others have noted the parallels, it seems)

No, not really.

It's apparent you and Zook have plenty of history and it is also apparent that for those reasons you both continue to nip at the other's heels. I think you are a little tough on Zook. I know that he gets really piqued if one doesn't concede to his view which to admit is a tendency we all have, but that doesn't qualify one as a bonafide sociopath, perhaps on the spectrum but not ringing that bell. I believe that Zook does possess a sense of empathy for his fellows, perhaps he is a little 'tight' with his worldview but that doesn't really make him a bad person. Perhaps, any and all of us, that are compelled to fight the battles suffer from the same malady. I don't of course because I am special and so very enlightened, not! On a serious note, my view is that if one is not confused among all the 'truths' touching on good and bad then one is capable of standing for good but not of necessity in identical fashion to all others.

You, on the hand, seem to stand for obvious good, but still Zook seems to have serious differences with you, and thus enters into his 'autopilot zone' when interacting with you. Rather, like a bad marriage (a common analogy of which I refer) the fight continues but no one remembers why it started.

A little agonizing reappraisal might be in order under such circumstances...

Peace
Adamm

This is from a book I'm reading, perhaps one will see the irony and humor in the short excerpt:

Ares, the War God has been injured in a human battle, this battle is apparently cited in Homer's Iliad, including the reference to Ares. Further, the battle is the result of covert and overt machinations by the "Gods"

"Father Zeus, doesn't it infuriate you to see such human violence, such bloody work? We're the everlasting, immortal gods, but god Damn, we suffer injuries and insults--thanks to our own divine arguments and conflicting wills--every time we show these stinking mortals a bit of kindness. And, it's bad enough we have to fight these nano-crazed mortal sons of bitches, Lord Zeus, we also have to fight you."

Ares takes a breath, grimaces in pain, and waits. Zeus says nothing, but continues to glower as if pondering the war god's words.


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I think Ares is ringing the bell of sociopathy loud and clear!

Zook can correct me if I am wrong, but I seriously doubt anyone has exchanged more posts with Zook than I have. Most of those posts have been contentious, non-trivial, and more than a few sentences. While I will admit that Zook can string a lot of flowery words together to express a simple idea, I always try to communicate in the most succinct way that I can imagine. So when you add all of that up, Zook and I do have a lot of history behind us.


That particular quality of Zook's contributes very little to the preponderance of evidence indicating that Zook is a sociopath. As for being tough on Zook, keep in mind that he insists that he is the one and only genuine truth-seeker around, with almost everyone else of a different mind being a gatekeeper or worse. While empathy is something I value highly and even feel for Zook often enough, the truth takes precedence, in my mind. And I don't expect any more than that for myself, either. The Golden Rule as expressed by Confucius is my guide -- "Do not do to others what you would not want done to you." In pursuing the truth, I would hope Zook would be just as tough on me as I am on him. That's how important the truth is in this world rendered insane by sociopathic leadership.


Being a sociopath doesn't necessarily make anyone a bad person. True, many sociopaths are bad people, but it's often the environment that provides the incentive. Given opportunities to be bad, sociopaths are more inclined than normal people to take them! Why wouldn't we expect that from people lacking empathy, who will consequently have weak ethics and morals? Look at the gang over at ToT for a recent example. Where is the decency, compassion, kindness, equality, responsibility, shame, or humbleness in that group? It's out to lunch, and they are all quite proud of it!


"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." If we obeyed that, no stone would be thrown, no one would be held accountable, and justice would not exist. Without justice, truth would be destroyed by the sociopaths. It already practically is.


I study sociopathy. I've done this seriously, on my own, for eleven years now. I have been amazed by how many sociopaths I encounter online. Every one of them I thought was normal at first, and I have been wrong with each one. I thought Bill Ryan was normal! Same for Stephen/Atticus, GypsyWoman, dsimon, 9eagle9, andywight, Ross/pod, digitalindustry, and so many others, including Zook. I don't like to be wrong. No honest person does. Essentially, I was fooled, and I don't like to be fooled. No honest person does. It can be fun to be temporarily fooled if we are just playing around with unimportant things, but it's not fun otherwise.

Sociopaths, on the other hand, enjoy deceiving others. It's a permanent game for them. They use deception and manipulation to gain power and control over others, to enslave them in as many little ways as they can get away with. I'm not OK with that. In fact, given the obvious consequences sociopathic behavior has had on our world, I want it stopped!

Needless to say, sociopaths know who they are, and they don't like it when I show up. Witness the reaction at the ToT forum. Universal Spectrum made it clear that they didn't want me to show up either. It started six years ago when Bill Ryan banned me permanently when I started a thread asking about censorship occurring at Avalon (though I knew it was occurring). Atticus had me banned from Atticus1 for pointing out his sociopathic behaviors. Nexus banned me when I exposed the administrator Richard using the Miserable User module on andywight. No one would believe Richard would do that, they thought I had lost my mind, but it has been confirmed that Richard did it. Kolin Evans/digitalindustry had to shut down the Quark forum because I exposed the scams he was running there. I remember all those things. And I remember why the fight with Zook started. He thought he had the truth, and I could clearly show that he didn't. He thought his discernment was infallible, and I could show that it wasn't. He thought he had all the answers, and I could show that he didn't. Though Zook didn't tend to deceive deliberately, he deceived because he himself was deceived and wouldn't admit it.

I don't have the best tools for identifying sociopaths, because those tools are deliberately not available to the general public. The wolves will never give the sheep wolf detectors. So I have to judge by behavioral means, and that requires a lot of careful observation. For example, I've been watching 9eagle9 since I was at Avalon six years ago. Same for Bill Ryan, dsimon, Ross/pod, andywight, GypsyWoman, Richard, Atticus, and many others, including Zook. Because I study sociopathy, I'm getting good at spotting the characteristic signs of the sociopath. But it takes a preponderance of the various signs before you can identify a sociopath. Even then, you have to question your observations and leave room for doubt. But most importantly, you have to go public with your evidence so others can judge the validity of your judgment!

I have done exactly this with all the sociopaths I have identified. The evidence is documented and public. I don't just make claims or give opinions. I publicly provide the evidence that led me to the conclusion. So although I usually remember the reasons for why "the marriage went bad", I don't have to, because I wrote it down. Even when entire forums disappear and my posts vanish, I have the originals.

And I can be wrong! I would be happy to be proven wrong about Zook or any other sociopath I pointed out. Like you and many others, I don't want Zook to be a sociopath! I've never been happy about identifying the sociopathy in Zook. I took a long time before I would accept it, and I still don't like it. The truth is often unpleasant.

If we could sit both Zook and me down for the most accurate sociopathy test (probably using fMRI), and Zook turned out to be normal, I would be first in line to celebrate, regardless of how my test turned out.

The gods are always sociopathic. Why? Because human sociopaths create them. They create them in their image.