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Zimbardo shows how most evil comes from hierarchy 
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Post Zimbardo shows how most evil comes from hierarchy


More proof that the global evils observed today are the result of organization, not sociopathy.

Hierarchy is an aspect of organization, not sociopathy.

Zimbardo makes the astute observation that hierarchical command is responsible for inducing sociopathic behavior, not the other way around (as Chico is fond to argue with his nonsensical "sociopathy first, then organization" hot air balloon opinion).


Pax

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Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:22 am
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Post Re: Zimbardo shows how most evil comes from hierarchy
UncleZook wrote:
More proof that the global evils observed today are the result of organization, not sociopathy.

Proof? Are you serious? Like the "proof" you offered that Hitler is a sociopath, which was a complete crock? :face:

UncleZook wrote:
Hierarchy is an aspect of organization, not sociopathy.

No. Hierarchy is a form of organization. It is the form of organization that sociopaths prefer, because they can easily operate within it to their great advantage. A holographic (planar) organization is just the opposite, one that they cannot operate within to their advantage. That's why the human world is overflowing with hierarchical organization, and devoid of planar organization, because the human world is controlled and run by sociopaths!

UncleZook wrote:
Zimbardo makes the astute observation that hierarchical command is responsible for inducing sociopathic behavior, not the other way around (as Chico is fond to argue with his nonsensical "sociopathy first, then organization" hot air balloon opinion).

Astute? Are you serious? He's way off base with his faulty explanations. What he "discovered" is that placing normal people into a system shaped by sociopaths influences normal people to behave like sociopaths. Duh! Sociopaths discovered that trick millennia ago and have used it ever since to manipulate us. They would very much like us to never understand how their valuable trick works. So they present us with Zimbardo who leads us astray by placing the blame on the organization, the system, rather than blaming those who deliberately shape the system to effectively mold us in their own image!

You are beyond belief, Zook. What a deceptive and manipulate sociopath you are. I am really disgusted with you.

And you started a new thread again for this kind of garbage? If you keep doing this, I'm going to move all of your garbage threads here. In fact, it might not be a bad idea in any event...

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Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Zimbardo shows how most evil comes from hierarchy
UncleZook wrote:
More proof that the global evils observed today are the result of organization, not sociopathy.

Proof? Are you serious? Like the "proof" you offered that Hitler is a sociopath, which was a complete crock? :face:


Your dishonest arguments on essentially any topic that is being discussed are becoming legendary, Chico.

The proof against Hitler was presented in substantial fashion prior to the post you are alluding to above, where I made the reasonable speculative argument that Hitler's abandonment of Germany is not unilke the captain of a sinking ship that abandons it while there are still passengers on it.

And now, because you can't refute Zimbardo's observations that most evil comes from hierarchy, which is not a known aspect of sociopathy but is indeed a common aspect of organization (e.g. most organizations are hierarchichal in nature) ... you are trying to divert attention from your own feeble failed argument of "sociopathy preceding organization".

Keep it up, your pathological lying and distortions are squeezing out even the last bit of doubt about your fifth column credentials. Those accredited buggers are trained con-artists, to be sure, but as Zimbardo aptly demonstrates, even otherwise empaths can be trained to exhibit pathological behaviour. That's not to say, that you're an otherwise empath, Chico. You remain an enigma at best. An enigma with a knack for pathological behavior.

Quote:
UncleZook wrote:
Hierarchy is an aspect of organization, not sociopathy.

No. Hierarchy is a form of organization. It is the form of organization that sociopaths prefer, because they can easily operate within it to their great advantage. A holographic (planar) organization is just the opposite, one that they cannot operate within to their advantage. That's why the human world is overflowing with hierarchical organization, and devoid of planar organization, because the human world is controlled and run by sociopaths!


What you can't win with argument, you attempt to gain with semantics? Touchee. In any event, I overestimated your intelligence. Your parsing of English, specifically, the context of sentences, suggests to me that you need to head back to remedial school.

For your edification - and any other dimwit who refuses to snatch defeat from the jaws of humiliation - the context is restricted to the comparison of organization with sociopathy. Hierarchy is neither a known form of sociopathy nor a known aspect, but rather, a hypothetical aspect to be considered (for sociopathy). When comparing things, it is best to compare apples with apples, and oranges with oranges. This necessitates introducing the hypothetical aspect of sociopathy for comparison purposes with the known aspect of organization.

Because we already have the form of organization we're interested in (e.g. the known bankster organization is fully hierarchical and not even remotely planar), then, for our purposes, all comparisons of organization are necessarily anchored in this singular known hierarchical form of it ... indeed, even you allude to this singular form above with your "devoid of planar" remark. Of course, because there is only the one form of organization to consider here, and this singular form does indeed have hierarchy as an aspect of it, then we are free to compare this aspect of specific organization with any and all known and hypothetical aspects of sociopathy. Comparing aspects with aspects. Apples with apples. Period.

To wit, it is totally appropriate to understand hierarchy as an aspect of organization, given the rest of the context of the discussion; equally, it is redundant to understand hierarchy as a particular form, because that information is already implicitly understood after we fixed the organization as a nonplanar one. Of course, for a timewaster and semantics simian like yourself, Chico, redundancy offers refuge. So be it.

Getting away from your refuge and back to the actual content of my quoted remark, hierarchy is not an aspect of sociopathy. Hierarchy is, indeed, a known aspect of organization (restricted to the specific bankster case being discussed). And Zimbardo more or less establishes that most evil comes from hierarchy. Which then logically implies that most evil comes from something that demonstrably contains hierarchy (e.g. organization); equally, that it does not come from something that demonstrably lacks hierarchy (e.g. sociopathy).

In short, hierarchical aspects of sociopathy remain hypothetical and undemonstrated. To be contrasted with hierarchical aspects of organization, which are known and demonstrated. Ergo, the rational battle against evil - given Zimbardo's research - should be waged against the organization, which does contain observable hierarchy ... as opposed to sociopathy, which does not contain observable hierarchy. Hypothetical hierarchy notwithstanding.

Checkmate.

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UncleZook wrote:
Zimbardo makes the astute observation that hierarchical command is responsible for inducing sociopathic behavior, not the other way around (as Chico is fond to argue with his nonsensical "sociopathy first, then organization" hot air balloon opinion).

Astute? Are you serious? He's way off base with his faulty explanations. What he "discovered" is that placing normal people into a system shaped by sociopaths influences normal people to behave like sociopaths. Duh! Sociopaths discovered that trick millennia ago and have used it ever since to manipulate us. They would very much like us to never understand how their valuable trick works. So they present us with Zimbardo who leads us astray by placing the blame on the organization, the system, rather than blaming those who deliberately shape the system to effectively mold us in their own image!


Checkmate <------> implies the game is over. It doesn't imply a space for continual ranting and raving by a spoiled child who doesn't get their way.

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You are beyond belief, Zook. What a deceptive and manipulate sociopath you are. I am really disgusted with you.

And you started a new thread again for this kind of garbage? If you keep doing this, I'm going to move all of your garbage threads here. In fact, it might not be a bad idea in any event...


Checkmate.

The archives holds both your mischief and my lack of it, Chico. You'll need industrial-sized contrition before the good readers take you seriously again. I did you a great favor by not dragging the discussion of sociopathy onto Rose's forum. You still have a chance to make a good impression there. Don't squander it. You have nothing left here on United Chico but your own cracked mirror on the wall. But don't feel too bad. You'll always have a listener in the shards.


Pax

ps: Once again, I'm still here for those who want clean concise factual arguments. And you're still here trying to take a step forward while taking two backwards, as you moonwalk on a moonless night. So be it.

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Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:52 pm
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Post Re: Zimbardo shows how most evil comes from hierarchy
UncleZook wrote:
Your dishonest arguments on essentially any topic that is being discussed are becoming legendary, Chico.

Do you have these delusions often?

UncleZook wrote:
And now, because you can't refute Zimbardo's observations that most evil comes from hierarchy...

Oh, I see you have them continually.

UncleZook wrote:
Keep it up, your pathological lying and distortions are squeezing out even the last bit of doubt about your fifth column credentials.

So it wasn't enough crow for you to eat with the Hitler thread and you want to eat more? I can oblige. It's so easy to destroy your dufus arguments, Zook. You have no idea how bad they are.

UncleZook wrote:
What you can't win with argument, you attempt to gain with semantics?

I haven't made the argument yet. I wanted to verify that you were foolish enough to hang your credibility on the Zimbardo experiment.

UncleZook wrote:
Checkmate.
Checkmate <------> implies the game is over.
Checkmate.

Yep, you're foolish enough. And such an arrogant, condescending blowhard! So let us proceed to my argument.

Let's look at Zook's duplicitous and downright stupid argument that evil comes from organization and not sociopathy. This examination in itself will be a window into the psychology of Zook's mind, which I have already shown to be very sociopathic. This will be additional confirmation.

First of all, the hypocrisy here is disgusting. Zook has found a psychologist that is saying something that supports an argument Zook wants to make. When psychologists make arguments Zook doesn't like, he dismisses them all as charlatans, purveyors of "soft science", and snake oil salesmen. But not this time! Now the psychologist is a respected authority who speaks nothing but the truth. Got hypocrisy, Zook? :lol:

Zook's argument is that organization, specifically hierarchy, is the source of evil behavior. In Zimbardo's experiment, regular people were put into role-playing positions of power and authority, and lo and behold they became unexpectedly corrupt and domineering. Et voila, proof that hierarchy creates evil! Wrong. The evil was present in the regular people to begin with. The hierarchy just provided fertile ground that allowed the evil to be expressed. Hierarchy is an enabler of evil. It encourages the expression of sociopathic behavior. It provides a framework that is conducive to sociopathic thinking and behavior. Secrecy, withholding information, is another enabler of sociopathy. So is secrecy the source of evil behavior? Why not make that stupid argument, Zook? Because evil does not come from secrecy any more than it comes from organization. Evil comes from psychology, most specifically from sociopathy (lack of empathy). The environment affects how well that evil can be expressed. Provide an environment of hierarchy and secrecy, and evil (sociopaths) will flourish. Remove hierarchy and secrecy, and evil (sociopaths) cannot flourish. But the root problem is always sociopaths, and not secrecy or hierarchy. Remove sociopaths from the equation, and you can have both hierarchy and secrecy used in properly limited and beneficial ways. The parent-child dynamic is an example of this. Good parents don't tell kids everything until they are ready to handle the information without damage, and good parents use their authority (hierarchy) to help children learn and develop. The concept of "good" comes from empathy. When empathy is low, "good" goes out the window, and evil takes center stage. Sociopaths make that quite evident, especially when you get them in an environment of hierarchy and secrecy, where their sociopathy can enjoy fuller expression! Our government leaders provide perfect examples of this.

It's easy to see that evil doesn't come from hierarchy, nor does it come from secrecy. Only an idiot would claim evil comes from hierarchy, and it makes no difference if his name is Zimbardo or Zook, or if he's a bumbling psychologist or a sociopathic amateur gatekeeper.

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Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:06 am
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Post Re: Zimbardo shows how most evil comes from hierarchy
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Yep, you're foolish enough. And such an arrogant, condescending blowhard! So let us proceed to my argument.

Let's look at Zook's duplicitous and downright stupid argument that evil comes from organization and not sociopathy. This examination in itself will be a window into the psychology of Zook's mind, which I have already shown to be very sociopathic. This will be additional confirmation.


Well, Chico - Quixote of La Mancha canned in a dented tin suit and bouncing softly on a geriatric galloper - you've just earned yourself a discussion on Rose's forum on the topic of sociopathy. There, shortly, I will expose the paucity in your understanding of sociopathy, not to mention the indiscriminate application of your sociopath-finder. The poseur, fifth columnist, and actual blowhard from La Mancha will then have nothing left but tomatoes on his face and a week's work to clean his reddened armor. If that's arrogance on my part, so be it. I've earned the right after long tolerating your ignorance on many topics and your unwillingness to recognize the facts in the environment from the fictions in your head.

Quote:
First of all, the hypocrisy here is disgusting. Zook has found a psychologist that is saying something that supports an argument Zook wants to make. When psychologists make arguments Zook doesn't like, he dismisses them all as charlatans, purveyors of "soft science", and snake oil salesmen. But not this time! Now the psychologist is a respected authority who speaks nothing but the truth. Got hypocrisy, Zook? :lol:


Nope. Zook doesn't actively go out seeking psychologists, because Zook doesn't invest too much energy in soft scientific disciplines or the resultant databases. I just happened to run across the video in a thread on Universal Spectrum created for discussing Islam, identifying the source of terrorism, and the contrived Clash of Civilizations meme. Then a light bulb went off in my head ... followed by chuckles and then guffaws. The discovery of Zimbardo was quite accidental, and most appreciated by me, because Zimbardo effectively showed what I had been arguing all these months, namely, that FSD and the attendant evils in it, are the result of organization, not sociopathy.

Zimbardo essentially showed that a few sociopaths are all that is needed to control large sections of otherwise empaths ... and this mirrors the tribal occupation of the world. Indeed, most tribal Zionists are not sociopaths, but are empaths conditioned to act out in pathological manners. The environment conditions them. The few sociopaths organize the environmental structure and corrall the masses of otherwise empaths inside this structure ... come grazing time, these sociopathic shepherds herd the conditioned sheep. Pavlonian sheep, if you will.

Fix the environment (e.g. the organization) and re-establish the empathy, as it were. That said, millennia have gone by attempting to fix bad individuals and nothing has really changed. The general bad seeds remain unleashed. Millennia more will probably go by trying to fix the general bad seeds, only now, these bad seeds are being called sociopaths, and all the ills of the world are being foisted on them. At the same time, the conditioned empaths who are committing the bulk of the immediately observable pathological behavior are being ignored. IOW, the conditioning environment - the organization - is being ignored while focus and resources are being wasted chasing the general bad seeds. I allude to the general bad seeds because the specific bad seeds, namely, the few tribal sociopaths that actually control the organization, the environment(s), and the chaos in the environment(s) ... are also being ignored.

Directing resources and everyone to chase after the wild goose of sociopathy and the sensationalized, generalized, and largely impotent bad seeds of society (the OJ Simpsons, the con-artist stockbrokers, the rubber-stamping politicians of policies designed higher on the power ladder, the common thieves and bank robbers, the common killers, the common cheats and adulterers, etc.) ... is what the specific bad seeds at the top of the power pyramid organization, namely, the multi-tiered executive of the Protocols-engined tribal central bankster empire, are attempting. And if these specific bad seeds can completely accomplish redirecting focus away from their plans for subverting cultures in the duty of Full Spectrum Dominance, they will have their fnal totalitarian empire.

To wit, it's this tribal organization that poses the biggest and imminent threat to the rest of the populations on this good Earth. Humanity has been dealing with bad seeds since the dawn of human history and will likely be dealing with them for millennia to come yet. The bad seeds pose no threat bigger than a localized threat to localized indiviudals. Redirecting the pursuit of the specific tribal organization to the pursuit of generalized bad seeds is an important goal of the Protocols-engined bankster empire ... to accomplish this goal, the high executive uses fiat monay and the frailty of empaths - as demonstrated by Zimbardo - to recruit gatekeepers and/or fifth columnists. For the bankster empire is set to fall quickly to its ruins if the pursuit stays on course and targets teh specific tribal organization.


Quote:
Zook's argument is that organization, specifically hierarchy, is the source of evil behavior.


This is another deliberate distortion. Hierarchy is a source, not the source. Bad seeds and their evil behavior exist with or without organization. The full narrative of my argument is that the evil that threatens to envelop the world in full spectrum dominant totalitarian tyranny ... derives from organization, not sociopathy.

IOW, sociopathy itself is only as potent as its organization. But leave it to Chico to shift the narrative away from what I had offered. His arguments fail if he doesn't shift the narrative. He knows it. I know it. I think anyone reading these sundry threads on sociopathy also knows tehe difference between the narrative I offered and the willful distortion of this narrative by Chico. So be it.


Quote:
In Zimbardo's experiment, regular people were put into role-playing positions of power and authority, and lo and behold they became unexpectedly corrupt and domineering. Et voila, proof that hierarchy creates evil! Wrong. The evil was present in the regular people to begin with.


Yes, the evil that existed long before the bankster empire (and its plan for full spectrum dominance) arrived on the scene ... were carried by the good seeds and bad seeds alike, with threshold behavior separating the carriers. The bad seeds didn't have to be prompted to commit evil; the good seeds required prompting.

That said, FSD of the good planet is the world's most serious threat (from a goyim perspective). The goyim represent over 95% of the world's population ... and they aren't going to be rescued unless the relevant evil is addressed (sinister tribal bankster organization). Certainly, the goyim didn't need to be rescued prior to the organization by the Rothschilds and their bloodline clans some 300 years ago. Regional tyrants nof the goyim variety neither had the desire to organize globally nor the necessary manpower. This was uniquely accomplished with secretive fiat international tribal organization, under which the goyim have been caged.

By contrast, the goyim had been dealing with and managing unorganized, minimally-organized, locally-organized sociopaths since the dawn of human time ... without any lasting negative consequences to humanity as a whole. The passages of this kind of generalized species-rooted evil through millennia on end is a naked testament to the survival of humanity and its freedoms through the worst of times.

In short, Chico wants to redirect away from the relevant evil to find other existing evil (but a nonexisting problem). Zook wants to direct towards the relevant evil to establish the relevant evil (and the existing problem).

Quote:
The hierarchy just provided fertile ground that allowed the evil to be expressed. Hierarchy is an enabler of evil. It encourages the expression of sociopathic behavior. It provides a framework that is conducive to sociopathic thinking and behavior. Secrecy, withholding information, is another enabler of sociopathy. So is secrecy the source of evil behavior? Why not make that stupid argument, Zook? Because evil does not come from secrecy any more than it comes from organization. Evil comes from psychology, most specifically from sociopathy (lack of empathy). The environment affects how well that evil can be expressed. Provide an environment of hierarchy and secrecy, and evil (sociopaths) will flourish. Remove hierarchy and secrecy, and evil (sociopaths) cannot flourish. But the root problem is always sociopaths, and not secrecy or hierarchy. Remove sociopaths from the equation, and you can have both hierarchy and secrecy used in properly limited and beneficial ways. The parent-child dynamic is an example of this. Good parents don't tell kids everything until they are ready to handle the information without damage, and good parents use their authority (hierarchy) to help children learn and develop. The concept of "good" comes from empathy. When empathy is low, "good" goes out the window, and evil takes center stage. Sociopaths make that quite evident, especially when you get them in an environment of hierarchy and secrecy, where their sociopathy can enjoy fuller expression! Our government leaders provide perfect examples of this.

It's easy to see that evil doesn't come from hierarchy, nor does it come from secrecy. Only an idiot would claim evil comes from hierarchy, and it makes no difference if his name is Zimbardo or Zook, or if he's a bumbling psychologist or a sociopathic amateur gatekeeper.


The above is just more tripe concocted by Chico to rescue his illogical construction that sociopathy, not organization is responsible for the global corruptions that are being engineered all around us. His illogical construction has any meaning at all only if expands the debate on evil ... from time-dependent FSD evil to
time-independent ZSD evil (e.g. zero spectrum dominant or subdominant evil).

Yet it's easy to demonstrate that this social engineering and subversion is a derivative of organization. Sociopaths cannot do anything lasting (or of scale) to humanity until they organize. So it's not the sociopaths, stupid, but the organization. Without organization, sociopaths are akin to periodic localized invasions of pests. They come and go as they like ... and as we like (e.g. pesticides were invented to wrest control away from the pests).

Zimbardo effectively shows that otherwise empaths can be conditoned to commit sociopathic behaviors. IOW, Zimbardo shows that conditioning of otherwise empaths (e.g. conditioning being an aspect of organization) is required before the incidence of sociopathy becomes a problem. For without conditioning, the vast majority of the population remains empathic.

One more way to express Zimbardo's results ... is that the potential for evil exists within all of us but the expression of evil requires organization from without.

Checkmate.


Pax

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Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:04 pm
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Post Re: Zimbardo shows how most evil comes from hierarchy
Wow, Zook! Your deliberate obfuscation is so thick and deep (not to mention the foul stench) that you are even losing me. It's an odious chore to read your "prose".

UncleZook wrote:
... you've just earned yourself a discussion on Rose's forum on the topic of sociopathy. There, shortly, I will expose the paucity in your understanding of sociopathy...

Be my guest. You're going to have to do a vastly superior job than what you've managed at UP, if you don't want to appear the fool in front of even more people. From my experience, you don't have anything in reserve to manage a vastly superior job.

UncleZook wrote:
The bad seeds didn't have to be prompted to commit evil; the good seeds required prompting.

And guess who prompts them, Zook? The bad seeds. It's not coming from organization per se, but from the bad seeds, the sociopaths, who use organization to increase their efficiency of control.


UncleZook wrote:
Sociopaths cannot do anything lasting (or of scale) to humanity until they organize. So it's not the sociopaths, stupid, but the organization.

Wrong again. Nothing of scale happens without organization. It's not just dangerous sociopaths seeking FSD that need organization. Society, science, law, morality, computer programs, forums, animal bodies -- everything that is built from simpler precursors requires organization. In this sense, evil comes from organization. But so does good. So does everything! So you argument that evil comes from organization is quite meaningless.

Ah, Zook, I'm losing interest in your flawed opinions. It seems you have nothing useful left to teach us. All we get is repetitive nonsense that has to be deconstructed to even be recognized as nonsense!

What a waste.

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Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:24 pm
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Post Re: Zimbardo shows how most evil comes from hierarchy
Lo and behold, who should appear but Philip Zimbardo with an assessment about Donald Trump!

Quote:
We were concerned that, given his “straightforward” or "outsider" presentation and charisma, he would appeal to people who were unaware of the dangers of his obvious narcissistic personality type, and the offensive behaviors that can accompany it. These behaviors include but are not limited to condescension, gross exaggeration (lying), bullying, jealousy, fragile self-esteem, lack of compassion, and viewing the world as Us-vs.-Them. -- source

Sociopaths are almost always narcissists. Lying is a signpost of sociopaths, not narcissists. Zimbardo has to know Trump is a sociopath, but he won't present the truth to the public directly. He beats around the bush by claiming it is Trump's narcissism that is dangerous. No, it is Trump's sociopathy that is dangerous.

Quote:
Dodes’ said there were two pieces to Trump’s lying: First, he lies because of his sociopathic tendencies — “He lies in the way a person scams people; he’s trying to sell an idea or a product by telling you something that’s not true.” -- source

Lance Dodes gets it right - Trump lies because he is a sociopath. But even Dodes softens it down to "sociopathic tendencies". That is bordering on dishonest. I bet Dodes also knows Trump is a full-on sociopath, but just doesn't have the courage to say so in public.

P.S. I love the title of this thread, with Zook way out on a cracking limb claiming Zimbardo "shows" how most evil comes from hierarchy! Or as Dodes might describe our beloved Zook, “He lies in the way a person scams people; he’s trying to sell an idea or a product by telling you something that’s not true.”
:lol:

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Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:10 am
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