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The Lotus Eaters 
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magamud wrote:
  • Until you can be open minded about the subject. Big difference in both cases and a tell of your balance.
  • You would like that so you don't have to think on the subject and dismiss it. Your lazy.
  • You would like to box it that way, but I have been saying a lot more and you have missed it, In fact its a tell of your reasoning in this subject. You need an equation. Well Jesus foretold that too, with no miracles for the Pharisees.

If one of us is being closed-minded, unbalanced, dismissive, lazy, and dense, I would be surprised to learn it was me. I have moved from a brainwashed position of certainty (my religious upbringing) to a questioning position of uncertainty. Have you? Or are you still stuck in the program imprinted on you from your childhood? What is the history of your religious upbringing? We have so far considered your message in a fashion unrelated to the messenger. Perhaps now we should consider it in relation to the messenger, don't you think?

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Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:14 am
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I have moved from a brainwashed position of certainty (my religious upbringing) to a questioning position of uncertainty.

My take is you have moved from one position to the other. And are you not certain in your position of empiricism?

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Or are you still stuck in the program imprinted on you from your childhood?

No, the imprinting I am dealing with is the inherent sin I was born into, or the instincts of the human program in this world.

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What is the history of your religious upbringing?

If you think it will help you understand, I have no problem disclosing. I was raised in a contemporary Jewish household. My father is a first generation american, his parents, parents came from Poland. My mother was raised a Christian and her family line came from south america and probably migrated from Spain. My mother converted religion. After 13 and my barmitzva I discontinued any religion.

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Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:01 pm
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magamud wrote:
And are you not certain in your position of empiricism?

No, of course not. I still question everything, including my knowledge base as well as the accuracy of my senses. But, my belief in empiricism is robust, because all available evidence supports it, and there is little to no evidence suggesting that knowledge does not come from sensory experience. Indeed, the human growth process strongly suggests that knowledge is at a minimum before natural birth, and at a maximum before natural death, which corresponds directly to the amount of sensory input one has experienced.

magamud wrote:
No, the imprinting I am dealing with is the inherent sin I was born into, or the instincts of the human program in this world.

What sin? It is universally recognized that newborns are as "innocent as babes", meaning they bear no responsibility for the actions of those who preceded them. They have no sin. Sin is the subjective judgement of a person's actions, and newborns have only just begun to act in the world. Only some insidious religions are devious enough to burden new life with the sins of the fathers, and in my opinion, they are not only wrong to do so, they are also blasphemous and hypocritical.

magamud wrote:
If you think it will help you understand, I have no problem disclosing. I was raised in a contemporary Jewish household. My father is a first generation american, his parents, parents came from Poland. My mother was raised a Christian and her family line came from south america and probably migrated from Spain. My mother converted religion. After 13 and my barmitzva I discontinued any religion.

Gracias, amigo! Additional knowledge is usually very helpful in understanding.

You say at 13 you "discontinued any religion". What does that mean? From what I can tell, you still believe the teachings of your religion, you still quote the Bible as literal truth, and you still insist that faith is necessary to perceive truth. I don't see a religion being discontinued in your case, not by a long shot. Perhaps you can correct my perception?

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Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:46 pm
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Sin is lack of knowledge of reality. U are born into it. I'm not sure if u were asking a question in the previous statement. It is not surprising that u can't reference the information, Jesus was killed for denial. Doubting Thomas? And I am not trying to be cryptic. I am trying to be as sucient as possible. I am suggesting a very powerful force has taken hostage our dimension. That would be Lucifer, The Lord of light. U just need to do a topical search from any culture to find their demonology. But incredibly u would dismiss this as a primitive form of expression lol. Tribal man could easily be argued as the better man.

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Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:17 am
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magamud wrote:
Sin is lack of knowledge of reality.

:lol: :lol: :face:

My religious teachings were way off-base then. So when Adam ate from the tree of knowledge, he was actually breaking free from sin. Satan was apparently the real savior, steering humans towards the knowledge of reality. It was God who forbade the two humans to eat from the tree of knowledge, so "original sin" came from God, who would be the Original Sinner for having denied humans knowledge of reality. Instead, Adam and Eve were supposed to believe some delightful lies from God based on faith alone, like "ever-lasting life", an oxymoron if ever there was one. We are still offered that to this day if only we will be faithful servants of the Lord.

That would quite likely make the Garden of Eden the first iteration of the Matrix. "No one would accept the program", as Agent Smith said.

Are you sure you want to stick with your definition of "sin"? I can't believe you are serious about this definition, given all that falls out from it.

magamud wrote:
I am suggesting a very powerful force has taken hostage our dimension. That would be Lucifer, The Lord of light. U just need to do a topical search from any culture to find their demonology. But incredibly u would dismiss this as a primitive form of expression lol. Tribal man could easily be argued as the better man.

Lucifer, Lord of the Light, you say? Doesn't light reveal reality, while darkness hides it? Or in the case of God, he used a Matrix instead of darkness as a more effective form of hiding reality -- "hidden in plain sight" as the deceivers say. Just don't eat the apple, and the illusion is perfect! You are practically making the "Devil's advocate" argument for me now, Mags. I am truly thrown for a loop. We use the same words, but the meanings are so different that we don't seem to be speaking the same language. I can hardly believe it. We both grew up being taught English and similar religions, and we cannot even communicate. It's the Tower of Babel, Act II.

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Up until this point in the Bible, the whole world had one language - one common speech for all people. The people of the earth became skilled in construction and decided to build a city with a tower that would reach to heaven. By building the tower they wanted to make a name for themselves and also prevent their city from being scattered.

God came to see their city and the tower they were building. He perceived their intentions, and in His infinite wisdom, He knew this "stairway to heaven" would only lead the people away from God. He noted the powerful force within their unity of purpose. As a result, God confused their language, causing them to speak different languages so they would not understand each other. By doing this, God thwarted their plans. He also scattered the people of the city all over the face of the earth. -- source

Thank goodness we have a "good" God to bring us these wise blessings and keep us far removed from Satan, the bringer of light.

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Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:13 am
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Are you sure you want to stick with your definition of "sin"?

You missed a lot in your definition, so much that you have an entire different perspective then I have. Sin was created from Lucifer creating his own world. You are born into it because your a seed of God trying to know what reality is, through your own choices.

This is described by Adam leaving the innocence of his nature, (consciousness) and learning about good and evil. This has to do with having a body or how flesh and spirit work together and Death teaches us this as well.

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Satan was apparently the real savior,

It's interesting you have this completely backwards.

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Sinner for having denied humans knowledge of reality.

You have this backwards again. And think I'm backwards lol. You can't see the big plan of how consciousness evolves. That is why the Bible references the soul as a seed and its growth like a Harvest.

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faithful servants of the Lord.

Faithful servants to the truth.

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That would quite likely make the Garden of Eden the first iteration of the Matrix.

Nope, leaving the garden was the first matrix.

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"No one would accept the program", as Agent Smith said.

Everyone has accepted the program, and won't see the door to get out. This is about the narrow path or why one is referenced to bear the cross.

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I can't believe you are serious about this definition, given all that falls out from it.

I can't believe you are completely detached from the truth.

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Doesn't light reveal reality, while darkness hides it?

You really are new to this stuff. The light is dark, this is also referenced with Jesus. This is the matrix of light, your five senses. If you had a sixth sense you would see the darkness and then see the real light of truth.

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Or in the case of God, he used a Matrix

Its hard to track you because you can't tell what is the light. Hiding in plain sight or knowing what is in front of your nose is knowing the difference between lucifers world and gods world, which are both made of light.

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It's the Tower of Babel, Act II.

Indeed, since very few can follow the Law, people create their own laws and this is a tell of mans war, confusion and compartmentalization.

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Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:38 am
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