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Consciousness and Idealism
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Chicodoodoo
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 6:06 pm Posts: 11864
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Re: Sociopathy UNPLUGGED (audio series by UncleZook)
That idea was to create a new thread for Sam's discussion on consciousness. Everyone does not and should not have equal access to everything in society. An example is driving a car on public roads. Only those with adequate vision and demonstrated proficiency should be allowed a license to drive. Likewise, only humans with adequate empathy, humility, honesty, and responsibility should be allowed to occupy positions of power and control. The reason why you cannot see it is because you have oversimplified your world view. For example, I doubt that consciousness is fundamental to all. Sam, if you can see the value in questioning everything and dismissing nothing, then surely you can see that fixating on a particular world view is not compatible with that philosophy. I can certainly entertain world views, but all are flawed because human perspective is flawed. Due to the mischief GypsyWoman performed in the forum, posts become permanent in a matter of hours. This is another example of how sociopaths ruin things for everyone when they are allowed to run rampant unmanaged. I would prefer to make posts permanent on a sliding time scale based on the sociopathic nature of the poster, but the software does not support that. It only has a universal setting that applies to everyone. That's like giving a driver's license to everyone, regardless of their ability or inability to drive safely on public roads. When I saw "UC", I could only guess that you were referring to 'Universal Consciousness". Now you can perhaps understand why I strive to be clear in my written communication, and why I must constantly work diligently towards that goal. Communicating clearly may be our greatest challenge as humans. I know I am not sufficiently skilled at it, but I'm trying to improve.
_________________ It's not that we can't handle the truth. It's that they can't handle us if we know the truth.
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Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:01 pm |
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Sam Hunter
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:08 am Posts: 14
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Re: Favorite You Tubes
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Don't be silly! Of course I wrote it. Can't you see the author of the post to the left of it? Sam, you've misread and misunderstood what I wrote. Read it again -- "Dr. Gary Schwartz makes the same mistake that science made in assuming consciousness must come from the brain." Schwartz makes the same kind of mistake that science made when science assumed consciousness must come from the brain. In other words, Schwartz is assuming consciousness must come from outside the brain for the same reasons that science assumed it must come from inside the brain. What both science and Schwartz should do is admit that they don't know what consciousness is or where it comes from, instead of creating elaborate theories that cannot be properly tested and evaluated.
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And the grave mistake you make is in limiting yourself to all and only what satisfies your self created criteria as to what you might then say is properly tested and evaluated never, ever stuck in that limited view and thus stuck in the results of such a limited view. Reason and the data shows that consciousness does not come forth from the brain. That eliminates materialism, Chico. Yet you cannot eliminate idealism. You still have never addressed the issue of the infamous "hard problem of consciousness" which only exists within a materialist world view. I make odds high you never do.
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Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:09 pm |
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Chicodoodoo
Site Admin
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 6:06 pm Posts: 11864
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Re: Sociopathy UNPLUGGED (audio series by UncleZook)
My point exactly. It is also a belief system. You have to realize that all we can deal in is belief systems. Even what we call "truth" is a belief system. Do you believe 6 million Jews were gassed to death by the Germans during World War II? That is a belief system. Do you believe the Jew leaders invented the Holocaust story for their own selfish benefit because they are monstrous sociopaths? That too is a belief system. What counts is the quality and quantity of evidence for holding that belief system. I was being honest. My intent was not to discredit the poster (you), but to point out the human tendency to fixate on so-called authoritative "holy" books, like the Bible, the Koran, or the one you linked to. Exactly. What counts is the quality and quantity of evidence for holding that belief system.
_________________ It's not that we can't handle the truth. It's that they can't handle us if we know the truth.
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Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:11 pm |
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Chicodoodoo
Site Admin
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 6:06 pm Posts: 11864
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Re: Favorite You Tubes
I hope you didn't bet a lot of money on those odds. The hard problem of consciousness "is the problem of explaining how and why we have qualia or phenomenal experiences—how sensations acquire characteristics, such as colors and tastes." In other words, it is a problem of explanation. Religious people often use this same tactic -- "so how do you explain this!?" Since they can explain it using their God belief system, and you cannot explain it, they can assume the "intellectual" high ground due to having an explanation when you do not. It matters not that the explanation is bogus, false, or unverifiable. It only matters that an explanation has been proffered. The tactic I use when faced with the hard question of consciousness is to be honest and say "I don't know". I don't really know what consciousness is, much less how to explain it. Other people don't know either, despite their elaborate explanations into how they justify their explanations or their shaky premises. That is also the crux of the problem -- we don't even understand what consciousness is! How can we explain something that we have no real understanding of? I'm all for investigating consciousness, but I'm not in favor of explaining it from a position of ignorance.
_________________ It's not that we can't handle the truth. It's that they can't handle us if we know the truth.
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Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:22 pm |
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Sam Hunter
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:08 am Posts: 14
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Re: Consciousness and Idealism
Consciousness doesn't "come from" anywhere as it always was (from the POV you are attempting to look at it from).
Fortunately, this is where words are only pointers and one must have "the eyes to see" what is being pointed to.
Fortunately, we all have the potential to have "these eyes" and eternity is ever patient.
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Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:51 am |
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Chicodoodoo
Site Admin
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 6:06 pm Posts: 11864
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Re: Consciousness and Idealism
So it's like God. So it's like faith. All things come to he who waits.
_________________ It's not that we can't handle the truth. It's that they can't handle us if we know the truth.
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Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:30 pm |
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Chicodoodoo
Site Admin
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 6:06 pm Posts: 11864
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Re: Consciousness and Idealism
I was reminded of Sam Hunter and his belief system when I read the article quoted below: I have no doubt that we as humans carry a heavy conceptual bias. This is why Sam Hunter's "monistic idealism" is just as flawed as mainstream scientific materialism. In both cases, we assume that we have a capable means of investigating ourselves and our environment, with that "capable means" being our minds and our thoughts. But is such a concept justifiable, when we cannot even experience 99.9% of "what is" because it falls outside of our limited sensory receptors? Is it justifiable when we are clearly forced to oversimplify and reduce complexity down to "rules of thumb" because our mental capabilities are so impoverished? Perhaps the question is not "what is consciousness", but "is consciousness of any use". Perhaps they are the same question to minds as simple as ours, meaning questions we cannot possibly answer with any degree of accuracy.
_________________ It's not that we can't handle the truth. It's that they can't handle us if we know the truth.
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:26 am |
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