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If at first you don't succeed... 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 6:06 pm
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
Chico, you were the one to entice Gypsy Woman here to use her. To extract juicy gossip and spill the beans on Neuxs and Avalon so you could add fuel to your agenda. When she was of no more use you tossed her without remorse or guilt and a complete failure to accept responsibility for your own action and blaming Gypsy woman.

I see you've been getting your information from GW or her gullible minions.

That's her own spin that she spreads to decorate her distorted game. Keep in mind that she records her voice calls with full knowledge that she is recording them, knowledge that she does not reveal to the other party. That's simply not a game I play.

You have been greatly misled, and not by me. I understand how it happens, for that is GW's standard operating procedure. I fell for it, too. Your entire post could have been about GW, and there is good evidence to back it up.

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Sat May 05, 2012 2:46 am
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
I'm still hoping to hear some discussion on how we address the issue of voter fraud, and as well as how we address the failure of a planar power structure (which is what we had while I was on administrative leave).

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Sun May 06, 2012 9:56 pm
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
The use , and definition, of polls (votes) on this forum
should certainly be discussed , and suspending the use
of them now is a wise and necessary choice.
For now they should be considered as what they are
called : a Poll ( measuring opinion on a defined subject )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_poll

This forum is a work in progress, and the introduction
of polls to decide administrative and disciplinary measures
was a natural step, very much encouraged by you, chico,
but it turned into a farse of the original intend, more or less.
(or maybe from lack of defined intent, as a group and forum)
Thats a good experiment, we have allready learned something.

- What is a Poll of personal opinion
- What is a Vote of common consequense
- (are any of them needed ?)

The discussion should start with simple fundamental rules of conduct
on the forum, and maybe a defined "vision" of its content and form.
From there arises the need for a minimal "administration" to take care
of thing harmfull (like spam virus or illegal stuff) and to force an outer
limit of what the forum can tolerate of presence and behaviour from
the individual member.

In time, maybe someone can write a code to take care of most of this,
but for now we have to rely on the human capasity, and acknowledge
that a minimum structure of administration and protection is needed here.

- Some initial thoughts.

nm


Sun May 06, 2012 10:10 pm
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
Well, you cant stop voter fraud and if you want a planar system you have to tolerate vulgarity.
Anarchy would reign and truth would be fought for on a daily basis.
Its not pretty but at least it would be the truest mirror for reality.

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Sun May 06, 2012 10:22 pm
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
nox wrote:
- What is a Poll of personal opinion
- What is a Vote of common consequense

Thanks for your thoughts. That's an interesting distinction between a vote and a poll. Votes are typically binding, and polls are typically non-binding. Otherwise, they seem identical to me. If you make a poll binding, it has become a vote.

Wait, here's another difference. You have to meet certain requirements to vote (thus voter registration), whereas anyone can be polled.

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Sun May 06, 2012 10:45 pm
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
I think it's safe to say that the initial system at United People has been tested, and it failed. It's back to the drawing board where we must analyze that failure and redesign the system.

Clearly there are foreign invaders whose only purpose is to devour the organism we are trying to form here. Without a defense system, we quickly succumb.

The traditional system of moderators was meant to be that defense system, but the line between defending the body and directing the body is easily crossed. When that happens, members no longer steer their own destiny. Moderators do.

We see that the same problem in the human body has not even been solved yet. Despite billions of years of refinement by natural evolution, our own immune systems can turn against us with deadly consequences. We call them autoimmune diseases, and we seem to be powerless to stop them. Our society mirrors the same problem, as governments and economic systems meant to serve and protect us end up doing just the opposite.

There are successful sociopathic predators among us, and our defense systems are not working. We see it at every level, whether it be forums, the human body, or human society.

Now what? Is this oscillating arms race the foundation of life, and we have no choice but to the play the game at all levels, even here in a forum? Do we defend against tyranny knowing we become the very tyranny we oppose?

If God were a member of this forum, I'd be calling him out right about now. But I would do it with respect and reason. Maybe there's a lesson there for the former UP members that have been removed.

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Mon May 07, 2012 6:45 pm
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
UncleZook wrote:
In the end, the rare important polls will belong to the courageous thinkers - like they should - and not to the meek who hide inside the box that Jack bought, to periodically pop out and scare the snot out of the proverbial nose.

Here's a possibility that has developed from the melding of your ideas and mine.

I've created a group of users called "Voters". Currently, there are only four members that qualify based on seniority (at least 6 months on the forum) and activity (at least 200 posts). They are Magamud, Andywight, UncleZook, and Chicodoodoo.

I've also created a sub-forum under "Forum Issues" called "Official Business". I am proposing that forum decisions needing a vote be decided there. A minimum 75% consensus of all Voters is required to pass any issue. Issues will be decided by unbiased, unambiguous Yes/No polls.

The sub-forum is Read-Only for all members except Voters, so UP members can see everything that happens there, but they cannot vote in the polls or post in that sub-forum (Voters can, of course).

New Voters can be added when they meet the voter requirements (seniority and activity) upon approval of the existing Voters.

This change is designed to address the problems the forum experienced due to the use of sockpuppets and malicious invaders.

Please post your comments and criticisms.

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Mon May 07, 2012 11:38 pm
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
sounds good, lets give it a try....

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Tue May 08, 2012 12:45 am
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
I have followed this forum for some time, and mostly as a guest.

It is not very important for me to be a "voter" on the UP forum
- but it would be nice to add a comment to your Testvote-thread.

- A separate thread, public comments on test vote and nuclear topic ?

But to put the number of posts to 200 is maybe a bit much ..
That could lead to "overposting" beyond that of real substance ,
to become a "senior". Not very important to me, but may be,
- for some.

Interesting developement .

n


Tue May 08, 2012 6:05 am
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Post Re: If at first you don't succeed...
..
-

Ok

One more post .
My 19th on UP .

(to make a point)

Joined in the middle
of february this year,
so that means there is
more than three months
to make the missing 181

:- )

n

PS.
It actualy means an average of
two (2) posts a day for 3 months ,
(till the 6 month requirement is met)
- phew... where is the lol-cat thread ?)

..
-


Tue May 08, 2012 6:08 am
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