Andy told me via Skype that I should watch the rest of the opening video, and I said I would. I am now at the 5 minute mark, and I have to pause. Once again I find myself wondering if I am wasting my time. Here's my reaction up to 5:00.

1:40 "People who want you to do something illegal are people you need to watch." This guy will prosper under a police state. He could easily rise to be a ranking officer in the SS. "It is what it is." I wonder if he will use that as his defense at the Nuremberg Trials?

2:12 "Beware of the professional activist." Isn't "professional activist" an oxymoron? A real activist doesn't act just for the money. However, in a world where money is required to do just about anything, it is not unexpected for any activist to look for ways to fund his activism. Almost everyone does it, and it is almost impossible to avoid. And I should add that it ultimately can't work in a world where sociopaths control the issuance of money and almost everyone is brainwashed to do anything for money.

3:20 "Choose your leaders wisely." Wrong. If we depend on leaders, we play right into the sociopaths' trap. That's their game, providing us with leaders and "change we can believe in." No, instead we have to become independent of leaders and motivate ourselves into action. Sheep need a leader to follow, a shepherd, whereas wolves can act both independently and cooperatively.

4:00 "Prize versus price." We're going to measure things in economic terms of value, rather than philosophical terms of right and wrong. Our Texas guru says you might suffer dire consequences if you don't, so choose your actions accordingly. Signing that Declaration of Independence is a poor value choice with little probability of a positive outcome. So sorry, John Hancock. You lose, Thomas Jefferson. King George is the safe bet. What were you thinking?!

If I had to hold up an American as a prime example of brainwashing, mind control, certainty, and ignorance posing as reason, "Tex" would be a prime candidate. By the way, Andy told me his name is William Brown, but I haven't been able to verify this. Maybe Andy can link us to more info about his new hero. It might help prevent some of our members from falling for another cult.

I guess "bad press" is better than "no press", two completely unbiarsed posts generated from only the first four minutes of Mr Browns thirty minute video!


The question often comes down to why Chico, but I think in this instant we should agree to disagree here!


I believe it does, though not in my case, although this last question was obviously structured to infer this. So lets not muddy this disagreement any further here, and backtrack a little to examine this new not-so-united-people phenomenon.

The definition of the word "Cult" in this context:


Mag's and now your reaction to my earlier description of Alex Jones as a "Cult Personality" has in fact re-enforced my original opinion of him.

Try reading some his "Follower's" forum posts or YouTube messages defending him against his critics if you want proof!

Next let's discuss the the suitability of including this "Cult Personality" here, he certainly qualifies and borrowing Mr Brown's analogy, could also be described as a "Professional activist", which also leads to the fact that he seems to be the only member of the alt media that is supporting fellow "Cult Personality" and "Professional activist" Adam Kokesh!

Humble opinions all round

So now we got damage control Zook I mean in Andy in play here. So we get a description of cult like behaviors to connect the dots of UP behaviors. Wow, thats amazing stuff Andy, bravo. No one here is adult enough to know this?

You are missing the point all together. What is the nature of Civil Disobedience? Why are their factions discrediting people who are preforming this art? What is liberty? What is it's nature? What is our current state of Tyranny?

I'm not looking for heroes dude, but I am pointing out people who are striving for freedom. Get you head out of the gutter and get back on track man!

I'm encouraged by your return to sanity Mags and this commendable admission to your recent child-like behavior, bravo in return!


Not so, unless "disagreement" means something entirely different in the world you're currently living in!


Not wanting to overstep any of your rhetorical boundarys, can you please specify if these questions were addressed to me?


I understand that it must be frustrating for you to debate these subjects with someone from a country not oppressed by tyrannical psychopathic leaders, but don't you think it might profit your credibility some what by trying to tone down these constant ad hominem attacks?

Just a friendly thought!

Pax Te Ipsum

Andy let me try and get you back on track:

Your thread here is on the infotainment business, identifying cults and many other things. These two subjects in mind are old hat dude. (Does calling you dude spring your hypersensitive ad hominem button?) While your missing other subjects which I mentioned previous. I mean god damn your argument on money and cult could be put to betty crocker cooking, bahama vacations, sports, etc... So you are going to hold this fix position, taking pot shots here and trying to connect these dots? When there are much more pressing matters as creating action to civilly disobey and Uniting people.

Any dots connecting?

Now my chosen topic matter isn't "pressing" enough for you!

Wait, there's more! I accommodated you by watching the whole video, so I might as well comment on the whole video.

Tex claims IVAW (Iraq Veterans Against the War), that Kokesh was part of, is Soros funded. Can anyone find information to verify that? I couldn't. It's not on this list.

Tex says Kokesh worked for Russia Today, condemning it as state sponsored media, but ignoring that the U.S. media is controlled by an even more insidious clandestine state.

According to Tex, Kokesh has worked for some shady characters, like Putin and Soros. I guess everyone that appears on RT works for Putin, and that's bad, right Tex? Russia is bad, U.S. is good, you must love the U.S. or you are bad, and if you like Russia, you're bad. The nationalistic brainwashing in this guy is really debilitating, wouldn't you say? And Tex claims Kokesh gets a paycheck not only from Putin, but also Soros? I don't think so. Tex is evidently prone to exaggeration.

20:40 Communists! Marxists! Questionable association equals questionable leadership, says Tex. What an idiot, I say. Tex has been drinking too much Lone Star and propaganda. He is so stuck on labeling people that he misses the meat of the issues.

23:25 Tex immerses himself in the usual labeling quagmire of Republican versus Democrat. Obviously, he has yet to grow beyond his government-issued brainwashed mind. Rants about Left versus Right follows, then Communists versus Tea Party. What a raving ignoramus.

His four closing points are the same as those in the first five minutes of the video, which I already addressed, so there's no need to rub his face in it.

Ah, he says his name at the very end! Tex is actually William Brown! What a chore to wade through all his nonsense to find out who he is. By that point, his name doesn't matter, as he has amply demonstrated who he is -- a symbol-minded individual, as George Carlin would put it.

Andy has also made some claims that Kokesh lied about his military service. This information refutes some of those claims, for example, lying about being a sergeant. Of course, this info may be no better than the info Andy read which caused Andy to condemn Kokesh in the first place, which I warned about when I said none of us have complete information concerning Kokesh.


Concerning your chosen definition of "cult", with emphasis on "whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre", I would argue that this is not correct. Emphasis should not be on the ideas and practices being abnormal or bizarre but on the mind control and intolerance of competing ideas. I would consider the average American's support and belief in his government to be a cult, even though it is quite common.


I think we already established that Mr. Brown's ideas are not defensible, so you shouldn't base your condemnation of Alex Jones upon them.

Before I address this post Chico, for reasons of clarity could you please list who else established this conclusion with you?

I assumed you had, since you made no effort to counter my arguments. If my assumption is incorrect, I expect to see your counterarguments.

Come now Chico, don't you think it a little lame to justify the usage of the royal "We" after only commenting on the first four minutes of a thirty minute video?