Pushed out by the capstone here, no doubt. But here's the logical hole that Chico finds himself in ... how do we know that any of the votes cast, were by members that had left? I mean, we can make an educated guess ... but under the rule of anonymity, who really knows who voted for who ... and whether the votes that were now purged by Chico's haste are in fact dead votes by vacated membership? We don't.

Chico argued for anonymity against the recommendation of responsibility tethered to rights. Accountability is not big in Chico's universe, it appears.



No. I don't know this. I can only make guesses about who voted for who ... you know better than to suggest otherwise, Chico. The transparency that you demanded of Richard is now coming to roost on your forum. You planned your attack on Richard (with Andy); by contrast, my holding you accountable now for your suspect administrative actions is an unsought epiphanous reality.



If that is the case, why have you left my poll on Andy's Stasi-style data mining intact ... or for that matter, DSimon's poll against himself, intact. Are you selective in your suggestions that polls be clear, unambiguous, and unbiased? Or do you only interfere when the polls deliver a result that you would like changed? For example, the UncleZook poll which had favored my nonSuspension at 6-4 until you reset the count ... and now - after Andy's prima donna performance and ultimatum that I be polled or that he would leave - stands at 3-1 in favor of my suspension?

Play the game as you like Chico ... but know that you are being exposed for protecting a gatekeeper and for putting obstacles in front of a truthseeker.



Let's see, according to you, I biased my poll with my spin ... and yet DSimon has done essentially the same. Will you rap his knuckles now? Or does he get preferential treatment because he belongs to the capstone of the hidden United People pyramid?



No sir, I'm putting distance between a genuine truthseeker (Zook) who goes after the hard truths' and is being slowed by proactive tampers waged against him by a hidden capstone; and a gatekeeper_brother's keeper (Chico) who has made it his business to go after soap operas, and the foibles and frailties of alternative media ... while turning truthseekers away from proper scrutiny of the power pyramids and towards generalized principles and obfuscatory pursuits. These are easy observables, good folks.



I attack frauds, hoaxers, gatekeepers, proactive tampers, etc. ... if and when I encounter them. Contrary to your insinuation, I respect content and pose my own rational arguments to support or counter the rational arguments of others. When fallacious appeals are dressed up as arguments, I expose them. That being said, I won't be silenced by my own design ... but by the design of others. If you want to silence me, with a contrived poll at the behest of gatekeeper Andy, you are free to do so.

You've already turned a 60% favor on my behalf into a 25% favor ... emperor's privilege, no doubt. And you did it at the mere request of our man in East Berlin, full time gatekeeper and part-time Stasi-stooge, Andy. You better make some serious reversals in your own conduct, Chico ... or you will lose this forum by your own affiliations and personal hubris.



I don't see the hypocrisy because I have a more complete picture of Nexus than you have. I grant that you have a bigger picture of United People than I have, being the very kind of mistake-prone administrator here that you refuse Richard to be at Nexus. You bit his head off at the slightest errors he had made ... consider this poetic justice ... symmetry ... karma coming back at ya ... or simply, the Zook on a mission to clean up UP.



I have been questioned and opposed at Nexus. And I fight back there too from time to time ... but I still have respect for the people I work with there because I know their hearts are in the right place. Just like I thought that your heart was in the right place as recently as a few hours ago. I'm still spinning, btw ... only, not the facts as you allege but rather, my head. I'm actually still holding hope that I am wrong .... don't know why, really. I guess it's my loyalty to friendships, that sorta thing.

But you are working hard to scuttle that last bit of hope by your ongoing insistence on protecting Andy against all the evidence of his mischief.



No, I don't see it, Chico ... all I see is one-sided justice in a man with two friends. If you had even remotely shown neutrality between the gatekeeper and the truthseeker, I would've understood the trap of the two trusts (that I had myself been snared in when you were banned at Nexus). When Andy made his latest prima donna whining act, I expected you to leave it alone and let things sort out between conflicting adults. I didn't expect a nanny state response against the reactive jester ... and nary a reprimand for the proactive tamperer. As a matter of fact, the new poll changed Andy's status from a neutral 5-5 vote to a favorable 2-1 vote. Can't you see where your meddling has time and again profited Andy ... and this has been the case ever since you started the ill-conceived navel-gazing Banning for Dollars thread.

You even forced TH - your own real life friend - to leave UP ... because of Andy's proactive tampers against TH, especially, his Stasi-style stool pigeon post. TH was looking for truths. Andy is only looking for drama and the subversion of truths. Canzirka warned you. Lee warned you. Now all of them have left. I suppose you are expecting me to leave next. I'll let you know if and when I decide that.



Yes, the reactive temper, then jester ... is casually dismissed as a troll. While the proactive tamper is allowed to run roughshod on Chico's forum, behave like a stool pigeon, send yours truly a foul-mouthed PM (which exposed his penchant for mischief then and there) ... and disrupt yet another alternative forum which is trying to get at the truths that mainstream media is not covering properly (or at all).

You are on the clock now, Chico. Step up and take responsibility for the bad decisions you had made ... or set torch to your own forum using the match of personal hubris.

ps: The good people and genuine truthseekers this forum continues to lose will be the shame it carries.

Poppycock!

You've sold yourself to Andy.

ps: The arrogance of thinking that either TH or I need you for any our respective purposes ... is mind-numbing. You're in la-la- land Chico. I came here because I thought we could expose the hard truths together. I didn't have to leave my comfort perch at Nexus (where my ratio of thanks received, and yours, were approx. the same ... mine were actually better). I didn't need you for anything nor did you need me. We were both strong in our own personalities, our own talents and our debating abilities. The big difference here is that I don't claim that you needed me. This fact alone should apprise the good folks here about who still has possession of his marbles (e.g. between Chico and myself.

ps2: FTR, Chico still hasn't apologized to me for running with the vacuous rumor that Richard and Nexus had sent me here to spy for them. He developed that baseless assumption to his own conclusions ...and he has done that with several other baseless assumptions. I supposed I could've pushed for an apology ... but I let the innuendo slide because I truly wanted (and still want) United People to work. This world needs a place for the hard truths to be discussed. But I now realize that UP's biggest obstacle is the founding father himself.

Wow! I hope your not throwing and kicking things about in your mothers basement like your doing here!

I kinder didn't know how to respond to this latest inspirational gem from UncleZook, but thought it should be kept safe for prosperity.
I personally would have returned once the tantrum had passed to edit it, ah well, I guess that wont be happening now!

"This world needs a place for the hard truths to be discussed. But I now realize that UP's biggest obstacle is the founding father himself"

I feel your pain UncleZook, may I humbly suggest that you start your own forum then!

We can't know, so in the interests of an accurate poll, we reset and start over. Simple. There's no logical hole, as you infer.


Because we're not involved in censoring here. You can run your own polls if you wish, but we have a set area for the official polls, and a set format. For a poll to result in suspension, it needs to adhere to the precedent and guidelines that have been set forth in that designated area.

I'll take your flimsy arguments as a request to start an official poll on dsimon.


Sorry, all I did was reset the poll to reflect the current membership. If your results change, that would indicate that the former members had indeed recorded votes that are no longer applicable.


Seriously, Zook, you've got to be kidding me. I'm just about at the point where I'm not going to bother responding to you.


Call me and let's talk. It seems like you're just on a crusade to crucify Andy and Chico. We can surely do better than this.


Andy asked me to close his thread, this thread, and I refused. I responded that we don't close threads here unless the membership requests it via a high-consensus vote. So much for your accusations that I take my orders from Andy.


The vote is meaningless until there are at least 10 votes and a 75% or greater agreement. Please stop this grasping at trivialities to "spin" to your advantage.


You need to go back and check your "facts". TH publicly asked to have his account closed within 24 hours. I responded that I would wait the entire 24 hours before closing it, to give him a chance to change his mind. TH then began to spam the forum by posting the same demanding message in multiple threads. At that point, I closed his account to stop the disruption.


You are quite wrong on both points. You still don't understand that you are operating on incomplete information.


Not casually at all, but with great reluctance. The evidence is recorded in your posts on this forum, unfortunately. I was warned by members about many things, including that Zook was being a troll. All of these members were operating with incomplete or inaccurate information, just like you and me, Zook.


I am always on the clock, Zook, and I am always responsible for my decisions. If the forum burns down, it will be the fault of all of the members, including you and me.


Wrong. This forum is not about membership numbers, or comfortable like-mindedness, or egotistical self-aggrandizement. It is about truth. Lots of people aren't going to last here, because lots of people, contrary to what they claim, can't handle the truth. But rather than protect them from the truth, or hide the truth, we're going to put all potential candidates for the truth on the table for all to examine. Few will do so.

Chico please retract my request.

East Timor: a lesson in why the poorest threaten the powerful.

Milan Kundera's truism, "the struggle of people against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting", described East Timor. The day before I set out to film clandestinely there in 1993, I went to Stanfords map shop in London's Covent Garden. "Timor?" said a hesitant sales assistant. We stood staring at shelves marked South East Asia. "Forgive me, where exactly is it?"

After a search he came up with an old aeronautical map with blank areas stamped, "Relief Data Incomplete." He had never been asked for East Timor, which is just north of Australia. Such was the silence that enveloped the Portuguese colony following its invasion and occupation by Indonesia in 1975. Yet, not even Pol Pot succeeded in killing, proportionally, as many Cambodians as the Indonesian dictator Suharto killed or starved in East Timor. [Read more...]

Stating the obvious is not a crime or a great revelation ... denying the obvious is a crime and a revelation.

Gatekeepers beget gatekeepers. Pilger begets Andy begets Chico. With its lateral pursuit of alternative communities and vertical chase of low altitude truths that even worms, snails, and mud water can access - not to mention tidbit care for the hidden important truths (here, obvious truths are mere pennies against the million dollar single mint) ... the People's Republic of Chico has adequately demonstrated - to me, at least - that it is little more than a community of cul-de-sac circulars.

Question begs, how much relevance does East Timor have in today's landscape ... and how much does 9/11/2001 have? Pilger effectively denies the obvious facts of 9/11/2001 ... and props up the obvious facts of East Timor.

A mixture of trivial truth-establishment and significant lie-establishment is just an expanded description of gatekeeping.


post-Edit: I double posted in error and the second post was the more recent final edit. Chico removed the later post and kept the previous pre-edit post ... I'm guessing just an oversight on his part.

That said, the last line should read:

A mixture of distal truth-establishment and proximal lie-establishment is just an expanded description of gatekeeping.

Both events are highly relevant. And there are no "obvious facts". If there were, the true perpetrators of 9/11 would have long ago been tried and hung, rather than continuing to live their selfish lives in positions of power, splendor, and luxury.

Not the question I asked, Chico.

I repeat, which is more relevant to today's landscape?

ps: The truths are obvious in both cases once you have the evidence in hand ... extremely obvious in the case of 9/11/2001 Inside Job determination. It's a stunning statement to suggest that there are no obvious facts in the September Eleven attacks. It takes someone bent on steering the conclusions away from their logical destination to prevaricate on this point. The only reason the real perpetrators are not facing justice is due to stonewalling by the official apparatus; a complicit mainstream media; compartments in the political, military and justice systems; and threats and assassinations of key eyewitnesses. But the evidence itself is blatantly obvious to anyone who calls themselves a truthseeker.

ps2: And you wonder why anyone wonders about your credibility, Chico. No character assassination here, friend ... just an accounting of the facts and the prevarications about those facts.

To a family that lost a loved one in the WTC, 9/11 is more relevant. To a family that lost a loved one in East Timor, Timor is more relevant.

Relevance is relevant.


You are too easily stunned. The key word is "obvious". Obviousness is relative, too. You and I both know 9/11 was a criminal, murderous, false-flag, psychological operation. However, there was a time during and after 9/11 when I didn't know that. If the facts had been obvious to me, that would not have happened. But it did happen, and it is still happening to many uninformed and uneducated Americans.


Actually, the thought doesn't cross my mind. My integrity is an open book. You are welcome to assassinate my character to your heart's content, but it conflicts with your self-assessment of being a truth-seeker.