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We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We? 
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
UncleZook wrote:
Which brings us to the discussion in its consequential narrative, namely, the general above-average intelligence of high chair sociopaths (relative to the average intelligence of the pasture people).

I agree with your general concept of prioritizing when considering how to address the problem of sociopaths. Obviously, "successful" sociopaths are more dangerous than their bumbling brethren. But that "success" is a function of much more than intelligence. It's a gross oversimplification to associate "successful" sociopaths with higher intelligence. Naturally, they are cunning, conniving, deceitful, manipulative, and scheming, but I don't see them as more capable in these areas than normal people. Rather, their psychological deviancy provides them with much more opportunity to exercise these traits than normal people, whose empathy naturally steers them in other directions.


Rules and exceptions, Chico.

As a rule, the sociopathic classes of consequence rise in the system by their cleverness and knowledge of the navigational passages. Rare is the idiot who bubbles up who is not planted there by design, e.g. in the duty of the monopoly men (all sociopaths by definition if we understand greed as a sociopathic tendency). And abundant is the breed born with the servant gene, e.g. the useful idiots.

A guy like Saddam is a useful idiot.

Howard Stern is another useful idiot.

The muttonhead that sinks the couch like a sack of potatoes, is yet another useful idiot.

Idiotic, too, are the sundry riff raff that enlist for unjust wars (if they'd been just average smart, they would know immediately to stay away from the posioned carrot patch) ... dittoheads such as soldiers hanging on the tits of honor (e.g. suckling souls); such as mercenaries drawn by lust and lucre (e.g. psychopathic ghouls); such as the trepid citizen atoms that find courage by grouping together in the military (e.g. to hide their private cowardice in the bully form and molecular uniform); such as the life partners of the aforementioned idiots; etc.

When one begins to compare the high level sociopaths (e.g. the sociopaths of consequence) ... with the useful idiots (e.g. most everyone else) ... the rule begins to assert itself. The scum rises to the top. But how does one define scum? By their willful participation in the dark design of things (e.g. which requires an active intelligence)? Or by their ignorant flotation from pleasure point to pleasure point (e.g. which requires the sensual somata and not much else)?

I would argue that the sheeple are largely mindless munchers who don't care enough to challenge their own brains ... whereas the creeple are largely in survival mode all the time and they use their brains as a matter of survival. The adage use it or lose it comes to mind. High level sociopaths use it (the brain) to weave webs of deceit, which then requires some care to preserve (the deception). A matter of survival. The masses - including the low level sociopaths/psychopaths - have opted to lose it (the brain). Proof positive of this loss of brain function can be found in the culture of escapism. The sheeple have been sold on the idea that ignorance begets bliss, so they have made a pact with the sensual body against the intellectual brain.

And that, my friend, is the convincing argument that suggests that, as a rule, on average, the sociopaths of consequence are generally smarter than those whose brains have been kept away from exercise. Use it or lose it.

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Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:54 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
UncleZook wrote:
I would argue that the sheeple are largely mindless munchers who don't care enough to challenge their own brains ...

They are a mixed lot and include people like you and me. Some are mindless munchers, but many more are highly skilled and versatile. They are sheeple primarily because they are not in survival mode all the time like the deviant and thus paranoid sociopaths.

My point is that this scenario is much more complex than a simple "they are smarter than we are". I don't believe sociopaths are smarter than we are. Why should they be? Their brains are almost identical to ours, only with some minor but highly significant deficiencies (like lack of empathy). Yes, they are better at deceit and manipulation, mainly from constant practice, and that could easily be misidentified as being smarter. But I believe we would be just as "smart" as they appear to be if we had the same deficiencies that they have. Why wouldn't we be?

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Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:22 pm
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Sociopathy affects is everywhere and in different degrees. It can be as simple as the disassociation someone feels from there fellow man, to a Stalin, but n the end we are one species,

projecting one reality. One of the root problems is lack of awareness within our own interpersonal dynamics. You can catch it if you socialize within a community, but for those who isolate themselves behind walls or like to control the gift of insight comes much more difficult.

It comes at you subtlety and your strength of empathy and insight are tested. These are the gems to Self Awareness and how we transmute Murder into Empathy.

Unfortunately we project difference upon ourselves, cultures, philosophies, colors and

intelligence. We separate ourselves belittling one another. This is a root to murder...So in a sense we can kill all the Saddams we want, but it will just be another Hydra head in its place and worse for wear.

The dynamics of this world support elitism, by having experts and laws to maintain equality? In the end this will be a contradiction. As a society we have lost the art of knowing

Maturation and individuation. We are still in an infant stage which is reason for so much murder, hatred and condescension.

As far as a sociopath intelligence vs an Empathic intelligence there is no difference.
Just difference in direction....

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Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:36 am
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magamud wrote:
As far as a sociopath intelligence vs an Empathic intelligence there is no difference.
Just difference in direction....

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. The intelligence is the same but directed towards different goals because of the underlying psychological variations.

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Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:06 pm
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magamud wrote:
As far as a sociopath intelligence vs an Empathic intelligence there is no difference.
Just difference in direction....

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. The intelligence is the same but directed towards different goals because of the underlying psychological variations.


I would disagree with this assessment.

Empathy is an emotional response.

All other things being equal, the cold rational calculating type has an intellectual advantage over the warm emotional compassionate type. A matter of the pure diamond versus a diamond with impurities in it. A matter of focus versus distraction. A matter of rigorously exercising brain function versus floating it in a reservoir of feelings.

Sure, the initial potentials may be approximately equal, e.g. before such considerations as prenatal and neonatal nutrition are factored to create advantages for the superior economic classes. And here, we can agree that sociopaths of consequence derive from the superior economic classes as a rule. So right away, we see a skewed distribution towards the superior economic classes.

To wit, superior economic classes beget early superior brain development, as a rule. Environmental advantages, too, generally favor the have classes. Sociopaths of consequence rarely emerge from the inferior economic classes. In addition, those with high intelligence who do emerge from the lower economic classes, generally do so by selling out to the sociopathic system.

The game is rigged, Chico.

Pax Veritas

ps: High intelligence founded in low economic strata - and which stays down there - usually does so by voluntarily separating from the system. After all, the system is always seeking high end brains to corrupt and carrot-dangle ... and, invariably, the corruptible high-end brains bite the carrot.

ps2: Again, we are talking about sociopaths of consequence.

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Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:08 pm
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Post Re: We Are All Sociopaths! Or Are We?
Well then, Zook and Chico you guys are so smart you have left me in dust of this conversation but, I appreciate reading it for sure.

Here's the deal with me regarding the sociopaths and politicians and greedy mean people that rule our world today----were screwed to some degree because they are in control of the power and weapons-food-drugs-everything at least for a while longer---so it is going to get really bad before it gets better it would seem-right?

And the whole awakening New Age movement thinks with ascension and happy thoughts/meditation/positive/meditation/channeling that the hearts will melt of the bad/cabal/mean/greedy/reptilian folk into awakening/love/light.


Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:28 am
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I would disagree with this assessment.


Empathy is a state of being.

This mythos of A.I. vs human is all over our history.

A.I. cannot integrate emotions, so he/she objectifies it, taking this for focus.
Au contraire, and our current state of affairs is testimony.

With integrated emotion, comes feelings and depth of life. Empathy...

Economics, politics, is a Con game. How can those references exhibit quality of life?

Sociopaths can be poor, downtrodden folk too. A whole underbelly of sociopaths join the military to kill.

Sociopaths live in poverty, with violence, crime and drug addiction.

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The game is rigged, Chico.

I agree with you there, not sure how that validates your conclusion.

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And the whole awakening New Age movement thinks with ascension and happy thoughts/meditation/positive/meditation/channeling that the hearts will melt of the bad/cabal/mean/greedy/reptilian folk into awakening/love/light.

Yes I agree this is a dynamic being played by counterintelligence. The 60's movement was laying the foundation for this as with Theosophy. Also the corrupted Buddha plays a Pillar in this Architecture. Its in epidemic proportions with the No Mind people and new age philosophy. Its not that its all bad as it is a Double edged sword with most things.

Its understanding the Dialectic

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Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:35 am
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UncleZook wrote:
Empathy is an emotional response.

That is an oversimplification. Emotional responses may be variations of the same processes that we call rational thinking.

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All other things being equal, the cold rational calculating type has an intellectual advantage over the warm emotional compassionate type.

That depends very much on the situation and the time constraints.

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And here, we can agree that sociopaths of consequence derive from the superior economic classes as a rule. So right away, we see a skewed distribution towards the superior economic classes.

Another oversimplification. I know, we're human, and it's how we tend to think. Or is it we're brainwashed, and it's how we are influenced to think.

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The game is rigged, Chico.

OK, on that we can agree. :lol:

I can easily relate to your argument, Zook, but I am not as prone to oversimplify as I once was. I don't believe we can say that the high incidence of wealthy sociopaths means more sociopaths arise from wealthy surroundings. Another oversimplification that works just as well is to say that sociopaths have the particular emotional composition to naturally excel at (and enjoy) playing the game of "Monopoly" in real life.

There was a time when I would have been inclined to think along the same lines as you, and even make similar arguments. Now, uncertainty rules as I more readily see how we fall into the trap of oversimplification. More accurately, we were born in that trap, and most of us never succeed in escaping from it, or even recognize the trap to begin with.

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Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:58 am
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Well then, Zook and Chico you guys are so smart you have left me in dust of this conversation but, I appreciate reading it for sure.

I'm not sure if this helps or hurts, but the smarter I get, the more I realize how dumb I am.

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And the whole awakening New Age movement thinks with ascension and happy thoughts/meditation/positive/meditation/channeling that the hearts will melt of the bad/cabal/mean/greedy/reptilian folk into awakening/love/light.

We are suckers for a good fairy tale, aren't we?

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Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:07 am
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UncleZook wrote:
Empathy is an emotional response.

That is an oversimplification. Emotional responses may be variations of the same processes that we call rational thinking.


Except that we have, in all communicating languages, created categories to process ideas.

In the English language, the concept we call empathy is understood as an involuntary brain process. A highly integrated brain process (under the poetic ownership of the heart), as it were. This is to be contrasted with voluntary brain processes which require critical thinking skills because they have yet to be integrated. Fresh ideas require VBPs. Old ideas, e.g. integrated ideas, can be be rehashed with IBPs. Empathy, as a rule then, is an emotional reaction, an integrated idea, an IBP. It doesn't require much in the way of VBPs.

Thusly categorized, it is overcomplexification to crush all original thought into one grand unified concept and call different extensions of it, variations. I jest you not.

:jest:

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All other things being equal, the cold rational calculating type has an intellectual advantage over the warm emotional compassionate type.

That depends very much on the situation and the time constraints.


The adage "use it or lose it" ... factors the situations and the time constraints.

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And here, we can agree that sociopaths of consequence derive from the superior economic classes as a rule. So right away, we see a skewed distribution towards the superior economic classes.

Another oversimplification. I know, we're human, and it's how we tend to think. Or is it we're brainwashed, and it's how we are influenced to think.


I don't consider myself brainwashed, and it's how I actually do think. I look at the facts of brain stimulus, the effect of stimulus on intelligence, the number of stimuli, the different environments that provide that stimuli, the rule of resource rich environments being higher up on the economic pyramid, the rule of sociopaths of consequence being higher up on the economic pyramid, the pyramidal correlations, etc. ... and conclude, as a rule, that the sociopaths of consequences (SOCs) and the richly-stimulated intelligences have a high degree of overlap. Equally, the sociopaths that lack significant consequence (e.g. of inconsequence or SOIs), as a a rule, have a high degree of overlap with poorly-stimulated intelligences.

I don't bother too greatly with the exceptions as exceptions make poor measures of human habits, gifts, sociopathies, etc. ... of human nature.

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The game is rigged, Chico.

OK, on that we can agree. :lol:

I can easily relate to your argument, Zook, but I am not as prone to oversimplify as I once was. I don't believe we can say that the high incidence of wealthy sociopaths means more sociopaths arise from wealthy surroundings. Another oversimplification that works just as well is to say that sociopaths have the particular emotional composition to naturally excel at (and enjoy) playing the game of "Monopoly" in real life.


Where you see oversimplification, Chico, I see unnecessary overcomplexification. Heck, by that standard most everything we understand is oversimplified because we do not have access to many many missing factors. Pedantry is too harsh a word, perhaps, but it'll have to do until I find the proper descriptor in my bag of polysyllabics.

FWIW, I like the rotten apples isolated from the apple bin; not tossed in for a variation in taste or tuition. As it were.

:jest:

Quote:
There was a time when I would have been inclined to think along the same lines as you, and even make similar arguments. Now, uncertainty rules as I more readily see how we fall into the trap of oversimplification. More accurately, we were born in that trap, and most of us never succeed in escaping from it, or even recognize the trap to begin with.


I am on the opposite journey. I am stepping back to look at the bigger space whereas you are stepping in to look at the smaller space. So be it. I was more reticent in my youth. Less certain of things. Always used to dissect things into small chunks to lessen the uncertainty. Didn't lessen the uncertainty all that much, may even have increased it (e.g. knowing the rainbow by its lambdas didn't decrease my curiosity any, perhaps even increased it from the days when I only knew it by the spectrals, ROYGBIV). Ignorant in trivialities and accorded bliss, as it were. Now look at me. I'm a big picture guy. I guess it's what you get when you fall headfirst into the rabbit hole. The head gets distorted by the air pressure below and all the vanities are tossed out the door. Including the vanity (luxury??) of navel-gazing and navigating small shallow calm ponds rife with lilypads and silent frogs.

You're a frog and I'm a rabbit, Chico. All said with respect.

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Flight that sends into the clouds brings wings to rest upon the boughs. Then further down to the liquid lawn, to serve as sentries for the gliding swan. Curve, a perfect turning of the line between here and Heaven, with extensions into infinitum.


Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:10 pm
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