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WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe? 
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
UncleZook wrote:
I implore you to cease your prevarication and apologism on behalf of a scoundrel journalist before it diminishes your own credibility.

My credibility is judged by my own behavior, which is mostly under my control. I'm not worried about my association with the ideas of other humans, including those you have judged to be "scoundrel journalists". An open mind entertains all ideas, regardless of the source.


Indeed, your behavior is that of an open mind ... open to all possibilities, including the trivial stuff worthy of a soap opera. Quantity shall please where quality fails to emerge from seed. As it were. I've seen your behavior and its accommodation of all kinds of dubious characters. From small potatoes like the gypsy queen and the tipsy banana ... to slightly bigger potatoes like Kerry and Brockbrader (I can't believe you are still lending them any credibility) ... to professional Mr. Potatoheads like Pilger and Fisk and Assange.

FTR, Chico, my integrity distanced me from Avalon and all things Pendragon once I was satisfied it was a scam rooted in Scientology and alphabet soup intrigue. I am buoyed by the fact that Bill tolerated you longer than he tolerated me ... no wonder, after all, I was the looser cannon and the greater threat to his private pyramid. The same integrity prevented me from signing on at Atticus1, but it never stopped you from becoming a member there (or that banana buddy of yours). You see, the quest for bigger truths is not as unimportant to me as it is with you. You prefer soap operatic truths mixed in with the bigger truths. I prefer bigger truths almost exclusively ... and am being constantly dragged into the soap operas by aspersions made by the trivial truth pursuers.

I don't know whether you/they realize this or not ... but your/their soap operas detract from the investigation of the significant power pyramids. Many kudos for Grats for keeping United People interesting with a daily infusion of bigger truths. And demerits for you, Chico, and the banana man for keeping the soap operas alive.

One could argue that you are more naive about things than I am ... but now that you've essentially stated to having a greater opening of mind than I possess, naivete is no longer the valid filter. The better filter to understand your membership at Atticus1 ... is curiosity. And that's the baggage you carry around, Chico. You have a curiosity for trivial truths on par with your curiosity for bigger truths. I don't doubt your truthseeking sincerity. But you appear to enjoy wasting time with lateral inquisitions when the bigger stuff is on higher levels and requires vertical investigation.

Let us both stop now ... and take the time to thanks Grats for keeping the original unwritten but assumed charter of United People alive.

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FWIW, the Lancet Journal is independent of Wiki and remains independent even if Wiki alludes to it.

That's not the point. The point is that the information presented by the Lancet Journal is highly questionable, to say the least. Your argument relies on that highly questionable information, which makes your argument highly questionable.


Highly questionable by whose standards, Chico? The standards of someone who makes wild conjectures in another thread (e.g. Banning for Dollars) ... who supports a given phony in Gypsy Woman (her Steve Allen episodic being the most obvious case of deceptive behavior although not the only one) ... who supports a gatekeeper and community disruptor in Andywight (who seeks periodic personal redemption with occasional forays into the bigger truths ... and fails miserably) ... who still has an open mind about Assange and Wikileaks - and two famous MSM personalities (Fisk and Pilger) - when anyone with a working BS meter can connect the not-so-well hidden dots with little effort.

Saying that the Lancet Journal research is highly questionable is one thing - and a debatable thing at that ... but not extending the same suspicions to Fisk who, by all indications is an insider, is quite revealing. It is called extending benefit of doubt to the wolf and removing it from the sheep.

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Fisk is a minion in the Rothschild brand ... but there are millions of minions.

Everyone that uses money can be considered a minion of the Rothschild brand. Your condemnation of one journalist or one forum member for such flimsy reasons condemns yourself and your entire species.


Deconstruction to nothingness yields nothingness. It is a tactic of those who are interesting in winning arguments at all costs, including the cost of losing narrative.


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ye shall know them by the friends they keep, that sorta thing. See how the evidence builds into a crescendo of conviction?

More like the crash of a mental breakdown. Your argument centered around "the company you keep" is full of broad exceptions. It's not some immutable law, as you like to infer. That's why your argument has such weak legs and continually falls down.


Broad exceptions exist, true enough. Which is why it is not a rule as such but a filter to understand the reality.
The rule of scoundrels exposed by a crescendo to conviction ... is that they are already exposed by the preponderance, not by supplementary arguments with broad exceptions.

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ps: Gatekeeper Andy brings your integrity down (by association), Chico. I'd like to think that my association - among others - helps bring it up again. We don't belong in a vacuum. We are all interconnected. The wisdom is in choosing our voluntary connections wisely.

Even here you contradict yourself blatantly. "We are all interconnected." So we are all associated. Yet you claim my integrity is dependent on my associations. Hogwash.


Not at all .. we have voluntary and involuntary associations. Nothing we can do about the involuntary stuff ... but you've had a cornucopia of opportunities to distance yourself from Gatekeeper Andy ... yet in each case, you've dug into the sand and defended him. By doing that, you've put yourself on the clock alongside Andy. Not my doing, Chico. Nay, the good folks themselves see through the thin offerings you have made on behalf of Andy, GW, Brockbrader, Kerry, Fisk, Pilger, Assange ... oh, let the name train go on and on!

You do have a proclivity for unbearable generalization; spectacular conjectures on less than spectacular facts; deconstruction to the loss of meaning; extending universal importance and priority to all truths great and small; etc. I will stop there on account of our friendship. Indeed, it is for my good friends that I save the harshest rebukes ... because I know they can do better.

:jest:

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You see, I reject Andy's association because of the reason I just mentioned ... I don't want to lower my own integrity by chatting it up with a banana in the bankster's duty.

Yes, I do see. Do you? Your integrity is dependent on your behavior, and that behavior is becoming more and more transparent, I'm sorry to say. But people can improve.


Yes, Chico. And that's all we can ask for. You've put your integrity on the line ... I've put mine, in kind. In the end, the good people will decide who is tripping the light fantastic ... and who is trying to keep the important truths grounded in reality and with precedence.

ps: Please, let me know if I should back off, Chico. One of my best friends in real life is a Marxist-Leninist. He is probably - neuron for neuron - the smartest man I've ever known in my half-century of life. That being said, I keep spanking him with the documented exposition of Marx (Moses Mordechai Levy) and Lenin (Vlad Ulyanov) as Rothschild brand stooges ... and he keeps arguing back that I simplify things too much. And I retort back something to the effect: "What the truck is there to simplify, you liquored-up light-headed left-leaning lunatic with rice cakes for a brain (interspersed with four letter words, for I too am a bit drunk at this point) ... the evidence is what it is ... trucking evidence!"

ps3: We never bring the good name of our respective mothers into our many heated political and philosophical discussions ... but after a few hours pass, or sometimes by the next phone call, we're as close as brothers again.
To wit, I will load you into the tree bucket whenever I deem that you require it ... but if that kind of intensity is too much, let me know your limits. I'd hate to lose friendship with a great mind over its need for mindnumbing, uncompromising openness to the real and the surreal ... to the sublime and the ridiculous. Heck, might as well leave the door ajar while you take care of your bodily functions ... for an open mind with no walls to contain it cannot afford the luxury of privacy.

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Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:35 pm
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
UncleZook this was posted Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:23 am

Canzirka wrote:
Zookie.....you truly are an enlightened being. I treasure your insights.


This was posted Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:07 pm

Lee wrote:
P.S. Zook - with love, stop being a fuckwit :|


So what happened Buddie? you went from an "enlightened being" to a "fuckwit" in just three short weeks! Image

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Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:49 pm
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
Andy, Canzirka and I are separate beings....with an occasional difference of opinion. Much love to her :)

Likely, her opinion hasn't changed about Zook being an enlightened being.

My opinion hasn't changed either...
Lee

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Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:26 am
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
Lee wrote:
Andy, Canzirka and I are separate beings....with an occasional difference of opinion. Much love to her :)

Likely, her opinion hasn't changed about Zook being an enlightened being.

My opinion hasn't changed either...
Lee


I'm posting a response in the "Banning for Dollars thread".
(we can all be fuckwits at times....there is a lot of fuckwittery going on right now IMHO).

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Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:41 am
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
Lee wrote:
Andy, Canzirka and I are separate beings....with an occasional difference of opinion. Much love to her :)

Likely, her opinion hasn't changed about Zook being an enlightened being.

My opinion hasn't changed either...
Lee


I thought this was a apt response to Kookie Zookie's above "masterpiece".

Hope you guys don't mind me quoting you like this, I don't think I took your comments out of context?

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Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:05 am
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
UncleZook wrote:
Indeed, your behavior is that of an open mind ... open to all possibilities, including the trivial stuff worthy of a soap opera.

Yes, I know the critique -- "A mind so open his brains fall out." But that's a misleading analogy, since brains don't fall out of open minds.

You know my mantra -- "Question everything, and dismiss nothing without good evidence." You are much more dismissive than I am, and with only weak evidence required. I realize that this can be both a strength and a weakness. Balance is obviously required, and I think you are not near the balance point. You think the same of me. And so, we debate.

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You see, the quest for bigger truths is not as unimportant to me as it is with you.

What I am learning is that we are poorly equipped to judge the relative sizes of truths when we are so deficient in them. Under such circumstances, what appears to be a trivial truth can have enormous consequences, and what appears an enormous truth might simply be the consequence of a trivial truth.

I have often commented that the forums are a microcosm of the same problems the world at large faces. I'm still finding that to be true, and this tends to reinforce my impression that prioritizing truths is misleading.

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Highly questionable by whose standards, Chico?

By the standards of the critical parties.

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You do have a proclivity for unbearable generalization; spectacular conjectures on less than spectacular facts; deconstruction to the loss of meaning; extending universal importance and priority to all truths great and small; etc. I will stop there on account of our friendship.

You exaggerate, though I realize it is for theatrical effect. You should stop in the interests of accuracy, not friendship. Attacking the messenger instead of the message is often a sign of desperation.

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Please, let me know if I should back off, Chico.

I appreciate your empathy and consideration. No doubt you feel you are spanking me most vigorously. I can assure you that I am feeling no pain.

My opinions and observations are fair game for criticism. That's why I put them out there for all to dissect. I want them to be stress-tested.

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To wit, I will load you into the tree bucket whenever I deem that you require it ...

As you should. I expect nothing less. But be aware that when you feel I require "correction", you are also exposing your hand without realizing it. And when your cards become visible, the correction you hand out may come back to bite you.

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I'd hate to lose friendship with a great mind over its need for mindnumbing, uncompromising openness to the real and the surreal ... to the sublime and the ridiculous. Heck, might as well leave the door ajar while you take care of your bodily functions ... for an open mind with no walls to contain it cannot afford the luxury of privacy.

I appreciate the smiles and chuckles (and even the incredulity) your posts often deliver. But perhaps without realizing it, you have hit upon a profound point. "... for an open mind with no walls to contain it cannot afford the luxury of privacy."

Yes, an open mind is like truth itself. Neither have need for privacy. I have nothing to hide.

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Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:20 am
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
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Hope you guys don't mind me quoting you like this, I don't think I took your comments out of context?


That's the thing I'm learning here I guess. What I write whether it be today, or a year ago, is a statement of my being for anyone to analyze, now or any time in the future. Thanks to Andy and Mags for this lesson :) .

There are people, women, on this forum that are getting uneasy on where this is all going.

I need to respect the company I keep here, at least the vast majority, which I have up to now, or it become's untenable.

Warm wishes..
Lee

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Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:39 am
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
andywight wrote:
Lee wrote:
Andy, Canzirka and I are separate beings....with an occasional difference of opinion. Much love to her :)

Likely, her opinion hasn't changed about Zook being an enlightened being.

My opinion hasn't changed either...
Lee


I thought this was a apt response to Kookie Zookie's above "masterpiece".

Hope you guys don't mind me quoting you like this, I don't think I took your comments out of context?


No problem. I still think he is enlightened....but like Lee said can be a fuckwit. (Like us all).

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Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:44 am
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
Lee wrote:
There are people, women, on this forum that are getting uneasy on where this is all going.


This does not surprise me Lee, I to am becoming "uneasy" here and am also concerned at the recent level of personal attacks that are being posted here.

What should we do?

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Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:53 am
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Post Re: WikiLeaks - Friend or Foe?
Yes, what should we do? :think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think:

What is to be done?

What can we do without censoring people?

I can refrain from personal attacks..(ie the fuckwit comment).

Any suggestions? What can you offer??

Anyone?
Lee

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Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:10 am
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