There is no zenith. There's a comprehensive understanding of bad seeds provided by a vast library of fiction and nonfiction, with this library always expanding. The very recent discipline of psychology and the specific study of sociopathy pretends to stand above this library of knowledge ... with maximum conjecture and minimal science.

Certainly, it takes hubris to promote an identification of disease in the mind, well in advance of an identification of the mind. And that second identification is not in any foreseeable future, charlatan claims notwithstanding. The vast library of literature is still our best guide to the identification of bad seed behaviour and, ultimately, of bad seed natures, themselves.

Ye shall know them by their behaviour and not by any psychometric interventions.

To this, great literature portrays behaviour and avoids psychometrics; whilst the discipline of psychology erects psychometrics over behaviour with little or no regard for the integrity of the foundation. Which is why great literature gives us an honest study of the mind, and the discipline of psychology gives us claims and more claims (here, statistical methods and group psychology notwithstanding).



Honest literature versus dishonest science? Hmm ... that' a tough call ... NOT.

That said, you asked for examples in literature. I provided a stark example with an offer to provide more. Now, you're doing a retreat from your own request. That's okay, Chico. You're an accomplished mental ping pong player.



How absurd. The genuine truthseeker looks for access to the truths. If such access is blocked by obstacles, such as name-calling or labelling or any other attack on the messenger, then the genuine truthseeker is obliged to attempt removal of this blockage. Which is what I was doing. I want access to the truths, so I offered an arrangement for my nemesis in which both of us would cooperate in clearing this blockage. Instead of agreeing to the arrangement, my nemesis wants to deposit more blockage on the path to the truths.

You are ridiculously transparent, Chico. But that's just part of the preponderance of activity that confirms my "factness" about you. You are not a truthseeker, for a truthseeker must always pursue the truths, and you pursue the truths some of the time, perhaps even much of the time ... but it's those far too many times when you abandon the truths that prevents you from being a truthseeker.



The above thinly-veiled suggestion is an attempt to disrupt the flow of discussion, some of which was heading into a tributary that Chico himself created when he waged a messenger attack (e.g. by indirectly insinuating once again that I was a sociopath).

Having no counter to my presentation of Caesar, Brutus, and the co-conspirators (when Chico asked for examples from great literature that supersede any modern study of sociopathy) ... Chico did what Chico does ... that is to bait and switch.

Pax

ps: I can already see that Chico is not interested in any real exploration of the behaviours of the queen and the quincunx. He just wants me to help him stick the charge of sociopathy on the tumult of ToTs, every last one of them ... and then he'll thank me by sticking the knife in my back ... not like Brutus ... but like the co-conspirators.

Can you see that you are accusing your opponent of your own malfeasance?

It is you that "is not interested in any real exploration of the behaviours of the queen and the quincunx." You claim with your words that you are going to "initiate a full frontal attack" on 9eagle9 and minions, but your actions suggest your real purpose is a full frontal attack on me.

This is precisely what sociopaths do, Zook, as we well know from your repetitive behavior here which is often focused on deception and manipulation.

I am sorry to see you so quickly behaving in ways that you would never tolerate from others when you held moderator powers. This too is indicative of the hypocrisy typical of a sociopath.

If you were really serious about me not labelling you as a sociopath, you would stop behaving like one!

The quasi-linguistic quincunx queen = QQQ = 9eagles9 ... is a charlatan, good folks.

Chico calls her a sociopath, and that may well be the case; but I'm content with exposing her game playing with language.

There's a thread in the Totsbox called "GNOSIS: THE APOCRYPHON OF JOHN"

Link #73.

http://topicoftopics.org/forum/viewtopi ... 1430#p1430

beginExcerpt
Yahweh is merely replicating what he knows to replicated when making the 7 principles and planets. He doesn't know he's doing it, it's done subconsciously. He thinks he's the prime creator which appears to be the sun in the middle of the universe which is allegedly screwing with our sun in this solar system, currently affecting a shift in energies.

Our SOUL-Ar system.
end

Say what??? What kind of gobbledygook is she trying to snake us with in her attempt to interpret the word solar as SOUL-Ar, with implications about a connection between souls and the sun? Implications that open the door for further unfounded assumptions and/or articles of faith. Suffice to say, this is how legerdemain works and deceives the unsuspecting.

https://www.google.co.in/?client=safari ... +dictionry


beginExcerpt
solar1
ˈsəʊlə/
adjective
relating to or determined by the sun.
"solar radiation"
relating to or denoting energy derived from the sun's rays.
"solar heating"

solar2
ˈsɒlə,ˈsəʊlə/
nounBRITISH
noun: solar; plural noun: solars
an upper chamber in a medieval house.
end


Sun = soleil (in french)
= sol (in spanish)

So what are the definitions of soul in french and spanish, respectively?

French for soul: noun
1. âme

Spanish for soul: noun
1. alma
2. soul [zook edit: redundant, probably just absorbed the English word over time]
3. espíritu
4. ánimo


Question begs: how did Eagles arrive SOUL-Ar from solar ... when there is no linguistic bridge between them?

Answer: because she can ... and none of the arrested intellects at the ToTsbox have enough integrity and/or wherewithal to stand up against her manufacturings and manipulations. All their energies expended in the task of standing up and being counted for lollipop handouts.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, good folks. I've caught Eagles making things up wholesale on many occasions at Universal. Anyone remember when I disassembled her nonsense wrt "feudalis" versus "foedus"?? That was either in the Hitler thread or the usufruct thread.

Sometimes I wonder who is suffering more from mental illness ... Eagles ... or her followers?


Pax

With you having been suspended four times from this forum for trolling behavior, Zook, and having come back to tempt a fifth, I can see I am going to have to pay closer attention to your mischief. A fifth suspension would last 16 weeks, just so you know in advance. Suspension times double for each successive suspension, and your last suspension was for 8 weeks. I realize this is of no importance to you, but I state it "for the record", as you like to do.

I have moved your posts (and mine) concerning your "full frontal attack" on the ToT forum into this thread, where they are on-topic. As a moderator for many forums, I know you understand this practice, and I suspect you are deliberately sabotaging the ToT - gang of sociopaths? thread by engaging in an under-handed "ploy to disengage critical thinking" which you have directed at me and that thread. I'm not going to allow this any more from you.

It appears to me that your return to UP is some kind of sociopath's game, and it will be interesting to see what kind of move the sociopath, whether it be you or someone else, makes next. Let's see what you've got up your sleeve now. The normal thing to do would be for you to develop your thread here with cogent arguments supporting your stated thesis. Will you do what is normal? Not if you are a sociopath. So this should be quite interesting, in my opinion.

I'm not going to post my usual "I'm Back..." It got me into trouble lately. I had forgotten that I registered here long ago as AlienHunter (AdammBomm)

You both amaze me...Such quick minds but sidetracked just as quickly by personal history. So let me try to do my thing. Act as diplomat.

First Chico, I saw your exchange at TOTs and was mesmerized by your efforts. I have exchanged opinions with Eagle since back in the PA days. One aberration of the sociopathic brain is a faulty memory, I don't think she remembers beyond one exchange to the next. She insists that I had no message because she doesn't 'remember' the message. It has never wavered. It is much like yours after the fashion of sociopathy, I pursue cognitive dysfunction and try to shed some light. I admit that full realization of what I was dealing with didn't really dawn on me for quite awhile. She is good, she is so thoroughly convinced that she has found the way it's daunting to face. In fact, I tried to support her point of view in some of my posts at TOTs but that message was totally bypassed and simply devolved into more fodder for hostility. It was then that I recognized there was a problem.

That group of enlightened beings just don't get it though. At some point one stops 'seeking' enlightenment and just starts living it at whatever level disposes itself. I passed that phase in high school (A considerable long time ago).

It pains me to be on the defensive but I don't like being insulted anymore than the next...so I add that what they view as development is pathetic. Any quarter-wit could 'attain' that level of knowledge in a couple of weeks if there was a desire to do so. I've seen them all make idiotic asses of themselves but have never pointed it out because it serves no purpose. I prefer silence in that regard, I gave up making fun in elementary school.

It's all pretty negative yes...it's easy to say but sometimes negativity is REALLY negative. It's unfortunate.

Zook - you're at least No.5 on my favorite sociopaths list. Seriously, as one gets to know the people behind the personas, a lot of things become evident.


I think both of you have much to offer 'life' at whatever scope the gods ordain. The heart and mind must meet and compromise in order to attain success and happiness.

follow up and clarification:
I have realized that my shorthand writing style doesn't work well in forums. It might not surprise one that I have a shorthand manner of speaking as well. One of the disadvantages of being a claircognizant empath. Yeah, there I said it!

I wrote in the earlier post:
"In fact, I tried to support her point of view in some of my posts at TOTs but that message was totally bypassed and simply devolved into more fodder for hostility."

This is what I meant...
I try to 'appreciate' and 'understand' all perspectives so I do and so I did with Eagle. I tried to help her understand that I wasn't the enemy but merely trying to get her to appreciate mine in turn. However, she is so infected by her anger she failed to recognize my efforts and twisted my meaning to suit her needs with the ultimate goal of jumping on the now rolling bandwagon of 'us' versus 'him'. It was very much at that point that I realized I was 'gone'. It was only a matter of time. It was as inevitable as the sun rising in the morning. I just knew...

Thank you for your perspective of this misadventure, Adam. I like to hear all sides of an issue, so I appreciate your taking the time to "weigh in", so to speak.


Actually, it does serve a purpose, and a very important one. It indicates that we hold them responsible for their misbehavior. Sociopaths do not take responsibility for their misbehavior. They admit no guilt, feel no shame, and have no empathy for those they hurt. So it is up to normal people to hold them responsible and ensure justice is done. When we fail to do that, sociopaths literally get away with murder, much like the Bushes and the Clintons.

Note that sociopaths will ridicule you for your ethics and morals if you do hold them responsible, exactly as we witnessed with my short visit to ToT. Why should we be surprised, since their ethics and morals are shoddy to nonexistent, if they are indeed sociopaths.


Yes, that is very true. But note that the more sociopathic the individual, the less heart they have in the equation. Lacking empathy, sociopaths are nearly all mind. This imbalance is ultimately responsible for the insanity of the human world. If humanity cannot find a way to manage it, I suspect humanity is doomed. And being human, with ethics and morals, I'm not happy seeing my species go extinct when it is preventable.

Frogs in the pot waiting to be boiled, is another way to phrase collective apathy in the presence of tyranny. If tyranny exists, we must fight it. Adapting to the corruption is a corruption in itself.

Seeking enlightenment is part in parcel of philosophy. Lacking philosophy, there is no tangible difference between man (e.g. the purported higher animal) and the other animals. If you want to surrender to animal instincts of survival, by all means do so. But expect to be treated like any other animal on this big blue, brown and green.

FWIW, live and let live ... is a war time "trench" philosophy. It doesn't work during peacetime, for the sociopaths and the empaths separate themselves during any peace period, with the sociopaths eventually breaching all unwritten agreements to live and let live. In 2017, the planet is far removed from the peaceful coexistence of all the shades sociopaths and shades of empaths. The extreme sociopaths are taking over the planet. The moderate sociopaths are making pacts with the extreme sociopaths, in the hopes that the latter won't consume them. The moderate empaths are cowering, for the most part, in the figurative sense of the ostrich, the frog, and the monkeys three. The extreme empaths are doing their best to bring attention to the corruption ... but these poor sots are outnumbered 3 to 1 by the aforementioned other three classes, each of which resists awareness of the problem for their own reasons.



Well, I doubt the coordinate-keepers of the points in the quincunx (over there at the ToTsbox) are quarter wits. They all appear capable of above average intelligence to me. To be sure, they choose to be intellectual eunuchs, almost certainly because they have been infected by the very thing they claim is infecting humanity. Their crystal ball is TMS. For them, the world doesn't appear outside TMS.

The ToTsbox has an uncanny similarities to Chico's forum, which i have renamed Shades of Sociopathy (SOS). Eagles is the Queen of Tots. Chico is the king of the drought, often finding himself alone in a desert of thought here at SOS. They first noticed each other at Atticus1 forum some years ago. Though I was never a part of that scene, I am aware of it because Chico often remembers the time spent there with Eagles way back when. He alludes to it often enough here at SOS. Clearly some kind of attraction is there. That said, Eagles is quite the ambitious moth trying to fill the wings of a majestic butterfly, fluttering from forum to forum with no discernible purpose other than to feed the sundry enchanted wits with reams of reticulated religio-kabbalistic rubbish, and to detract from rational discussion ... perhaps we can understand why Chico carries the flame for Eagles. As a vagabond moth, Eagles has garnered quite the following (however unremarkable the mob may be); whilst Chico can't even muster a mirror to sit beside him in the desert of thought. Professional jealousy among duelling amateurish psychologists? Dueling sociopaths?

You must remember this ... a kiss is just a kiss ... and the population of easily enchanted titwits is in finite supply. More taken by TMS means less available for SOS. My own advice for both Chico and Eagles: "Physicians, heal thy-selves!"

In any event, reminds me of this great song by ABBA:




Adam, any negative remark you make against me is a badge of honour. You must know that. You have failed the litmus test of 9/11/2001 so many times now - and you're smart enough to correctly assess the evidence of the Zionist engineered Inside Job - that your best defense is cowardice. Indeed, you play both sides of the fence ... and that is the habit of opportunists; of weak moral characters. Combined with your willingness to still embrace leftist ideology in the face of the provable, proven false left-right political dichotomy ... only makes me applaud your banishment from the ToTsbox, which is a PRIVATE FORUM with full rights to excommunicate anyone that they deem is a troublemaker. Certainly, they've read enough of your posts at Universal to make that less-than-flattering assessment.

For all the things those intellectual eunuchs got wrong, at least they got that one right.

Now, I'm not trying to be mean to you Adam. Your behaviour speaks for itself. Once you got banned from the ToTsbox, you came back to Universal trying to light a fire against the ToTsbox. Even tried to drag me in, by referring to Reaver's ambitious statement claiming to have put me in my place.

Chico came to your defence, because he is a committed fool who doesn't know the difference between a PRIVATE forum
banning members, and a forum claiming "full public access and no censorship" banning members. And Chico's a hypocrite on the matter of censorship, for he wields the threat of censorship quite regularly at SOS; he's even done it again here in this thread. And Chico is a deceiver, because he claims that the membership suspended me on four different occasions, but fails to mention that on several of those occasions GW, her sockpuppets, and her supporters had stacked the vote against me, not to mention Andy, Mags, and Chico himself (who were all seeking revenge for my perceived participation of their removal from other forums; to this day, I only remember voting yes for a temporary suspension of Andy at Universal, never against Chico, and never against Mags). Without ballot box mischief at SOS, there were simply not enough votes to suspend me on any occasion. The archives hold both my account and Chico's account of my suspensions. Read them and you'll understand that Chico is borderline psychotic as per his recollections of things. Which is interesting, because you argue that Eagles also misremembers and lies about things ... and have remarked that that is a probable sign of sociopathy. No argument from me.

BTW, I have no problem declaring that you are a gatekeeper, Adam. The facts support it. That said, most of the people I know are gatekeepers, including most of my relatives. So there are shades of gatekeeping. Indirect gatekeeping and direct gatekeeping. Some forms of gatekeeping are more sinister than others. Some are innocuous, in large part. Your form is probably somewhere in the middle. Chico's form is probably closer to fifth column sayanim type. Indeed, Chico supports far too many proven system/Zionist gatekeepers, even as he pretends to expose Zionism with faulty evidence in his sundry threads railing against "Jews" and his contrived support of Hitler ... to be considered a truthseeker. Study the evidence and you'll find a Judas goat.

Still, when the gang at ToTs (probably all sociopaths, tho' I need more study to make that determination) started attacking Chico (another probable sociopath) ... my empathic nature kicked in as is expected of any decent person watching five people mug one person. I decided to come back to SOS after a long period of absence to help balance the odds and put an end to the mugging. I guess I shouldn't have called Chico's narrative of sociopathy solipsist, which only means self-referential, but Chico appears to be offended by that remark ... anyways, he started with the innuendo again. I became a sociopath once again, in a charge that only a deluded mindset like Chico could make. So If you want to consider yourself deluded as well, Adam, be my guest.


Pax

ps: To close things, be careful with your arguments with Chico, if they even hint at being superior arguments, you'll have crossed the rubicon with Chico. He'll be gunning for the messenger from that point on. There's only room enough in SOS township for one self-declared empath, logician, facts-analysis, etc. All others will be loaded onto a SOS truck
and quickly escorted out of town.


ps2: Btw, as a pointer to Chico's delusional state of mind ... consider that Chico considers Zook to be a sociopath ... but did you also know that Chico considers Hitler to be an empath?


ps3: As I really don't know if I'll be posting on SOS again, Chico and the threat of suspension withstanding, let me apprise the good folks of what happened at Rose's Inphinet forum. Rose had an open invitation for Chico to come to her forum and and offer his apparent expertise on sociopathy. One of the first things he did over there was to attack a few of us indiscriminately with the label of sociopath. Then I joined Inphinet to defend myself and expose the paucity of scholarship in Chico's apparent expertise. Rose didn't like that I was destroying her understanding of Chico as an expert. When I warned her that her forum would become a tupperware club if she didn't critically address some of the big issues of our time, that tipped things against me. Previous to that point, a fun poll to determine if any Inphinet member was a sociopath, gave Chico 3 votes ... and Zook, 1 vote. I kinda rubbed this fact into Chico's face, after all, he started the negativity by calling me a sociopath on a forum in which I was not yet a member. Fair enough. I wasn't too perturbed that some member with an axe to grind had voted me a sociopath. Rose said that none of the current members were sociopaths, at least according to her. But soon after I made the tupperware comment, my tally went up to 4 votes as Rose enlisted a pair of cohorts to change their opinion of me. That just confirmed what I already knew, that pettiness is a primary reason why some people label other people sociopaths, at least on the internet where we only partially know each other's natures. Indeed, one must show dedicated commitment to wrongdoings and selfish behaviour (like the extreme behaviour of Charles of Atticus1) before we can be sure that they are a sociopath even with our limited knowledge of their realtime natures.

In any event, I left Inphinet forums for good. My warning to Rose for having put misplaced trust in Chico played out as expected. Chico exposed his pathological nature to Rose in greater amounts until she couldn't bear it anymore. Meanwhile, I recorded an audio file on sociopathy (archived here at SOS) which excoriated Rose for her pettiness. But get this, even with my excoriation of her, Rose (and her two cohorts) found their senses again and returned my numbers in the poll back to 1. They fairly decided that I was not a sociopath, as per their first impression, and whilst they didn't explicitly lay it out, I think they finally realized that if anyone was a sociopath, it was Chico.

By the way, my dozen or so 30-minute audiophiles on SOCIOPATHY UNPLUGGED ... need fresh links. The old links seem to be outdated.


ps4: And no Chico, I didn't come back here to get you. I came here to help you when you were getting mugged over at ToTsbox. But you are so far off the path of truths, the only occupation left for you is as the slayer of beasts (dragons; crystal-ball peering snakes; eunuchs; and of course, those beasts of burden commonly known as truthseekers).

Ah, Zook, you're funny. Still doing your best to discredit me, and still twisting the truth to make yourself come out smelling like a rose. You just don't change.

Unlike you, I don't have a critical need to defend my character or procure allies. Everything I have done is in the public domain, fully visible, and not obfuscated by wordplay or constant "re-spinning". Your interpretation of past events is BS, though it is cleverly done, as thoroughly documented in this forum. You deceive and manipulate as 9eagle9, Bill Ryan, GypsyWoman, and so many others have done -- expertly. That's something I don't do. It's not a fundamental part of my psychology to deceive and manipulate. You wouldn't believe how simple things are when you can be genuine, honest, and equal to others.

I admit that I, like most other empathetic people, like sociopaths. I like 9eagle9, even though I can clearly see her psychological disease. Same for Bill Ryan and GypsyWoman. I still like you, despite the fact that you are the great obfuscater and spinmeister and will try anything to discredit me. But just because I like you will not save you from the truth. You try every method you can think of to deter me from labelling you a sociopath, but it can't work unless the truth is that you aren't a sociopath. And everything I have learned from studying sociopaths over the last ten years tells me you are one. But Zook, it's no big deal. There are advantages and disadvantages to everything. Your degree of sociopathy appears to be relatively mild compared to the others I've mentioned. Of all the sociopaths I have encountered in the forums, I always thought that you might change. It hasn't happened, and I'm probably silly for thinking such a thing, but I thought I could see some empathy in there. And I may have, because sociopathy is on a continuum and has a large gray area.

So relax, Zook. You have a forum here to dissect the ToT players, if you want. Don't feel obliged on my account or in order to win an ally. If you are afraid I'll stab you in the back with a sociopath label, don't be, as that label is already applied. Only I didn't stab you in the back, I pinned it on your chest. If you really came here to support me against the gang at ToT, that's admirable, but completely unnecessary. No damage was done to me, in fact I was incredibly blessed to have such an amazing learning opportunity. Interacting with sociopaths helps me learn about sociopaths, and the ToT forum was one of the most rewarding laboratories I could ever hope to visit. It was a gift! And not just for me, but for anyone that wants to understand sociopaths, even the amateur ones that never climb higher than online forums.

Interesting,

I find a lot of truth in the above posts. One of the dangers of having been exposed to the disordered personality on an intimate level one begins to see those foibles everywhere, even in oneself. It's the nature of the disease, it is self-perpetuating. Frankly, even the most highly trained professionals will find themselves drawn into the drama and dysfunction. The key is to constantly fight this tendency, to inure the self against 'what is coming'. It takes a very significant effort.

It is also difficult to pin a DSM-5 worthy diagnoses on any seeming disordered individual. It is correct that it runs a spectrum and we all have characteristics that will fit in a loose fashion some of the noteworthy behaviors but most don't ring the bell. (What, 2-4 %)

I have my opinions on who is at the top of that pile at TOTs but, as for Eagle. I don't get the 'feel' of sociopathy, it's something else. Narcissism, Borderline, or perhaps even antisocial personality disorder, which is much more common among males with the analog of borderline personality disorder occurring more frequently among females. The APD has a significant 'violence' component to it, while BPD is usually characterized by 'relationship' chaos. There is the possibility that those official diagnoses are nothing more that scientific bias but that is the general trend. I don't have much formal knowledge of Eagle's background but BPD is a good candidate.

I fully understand the notion of 'liking' sociopaths. They are likable because they are fascinating subjects to study. And who doesn't like a working model to play with. (I hope that doesn't sound 'sociopathic' )