I must now submit that you have no clue as to what deception and manipulation really mean. I am being most transparent when I offer up arguments to verify, debate, or refute. You can verify, debate, or refute ... or you can cast aspersion. You have nothing to offer as a rebuttal, so you have chosen the tactic of aspersion, yet again.

I'm a cornered sociopath now, in Chico's World. Yesterday, I was a freely roaming sociopath, no doubt.
Maybe I should train with the Wallendas ... so I can be a flying sociopath, as well. You can't make this stuff up, folks. Chico points everything to sociopathy, even his debate opponents. He's seeing sociopaths everywhere.
Perhaps he's suffering from an acute case of sociopathypathy?



Yes, put things on the extreme plane when normal planes of understanding fail to convince. Classic Chico.

Solution?

Sure. Keep on exposing those who are secretly organizing and funding Huxleyian ambitions with fiat money. At some point, critical mass in awareness will arrive and trigger resistance to the bankster empire, and initiate the end of the empire. An additional part of the solution is to keep the focus on the bankster empire and cease diverting focus into those areas that only the luxury of time can afford.

Sociopathy has been with us for millennia; has been understood for millennia; hasn't been solved for millennia; won't be solved any time soon by chasing its subatomic essence. It is both a wild goose and a goldfish bowl.

The only essence that should concern us is time ... for we don't have much of it remaining to continue being relatively free individuals. Totalitarianism is advancing at various speeds, and all speeds point in the same direction.

Time is of the essence.


Pax

It's that easy?


And you can't argue the same thing about organization, secrecy, and fiat money?

No one claimed it was going to be easy. The goodness rarely arrives without effort. That said, the people need to know if the various environments (physical, spiritual, metaphysical, etc.) are being poisoned, who is poisoning them, and why are they poisoning them ... at least a critical mass of the people need to awaken ... before they will take corrective action. The alternative, of course, is to stay the course of ignorance; and when the grocery shelves convert exclusively to stocking air and there's nothing left to feed the baby, correction will arrive in a more rapid form, and without the usual diplomacy.



No. Sociopathy is an aspect of the human condition which has existed in the species from time zero. Secrecy and organization have both existed in various scale (e.g. from small gangs ruling gang territory to large empires ruling chunks of the planet). But it is modern fiat money (not simply the token systems of antiquity) and fiat monetary policy (including stuff like fractional reserve lending) ... together with secrecy and organization ... that has enabled the current bankster empire to surpass all previous empires and push for full spectrum dominance.

They don't talk much about sociopathy in The Protocols Of The Learned Elders Of Zion. Why would they? Each had already made their personal pact with the Syndicate, and in doing so, understand the entry requirements. Being sociopathic is one of those requirements, I'm sure. If one has blood on one's hands, one will be trusted to not squeal on the others. That sorta thing.

They do discuss secrecy, organization, and fiat monetary policy. Why wouldn't they? Without all three at its core, the push for full spectrum dominance would stall well short of the desired scale.


Pax

It's that simple?

You think people who are basically ignorant of sociopathy (according to me), or who are well aware of sociopathy (according to you), are going to "take corrective action", and the problem will be solved?



So once the people awaken and "take corrective action", and the bankster empire is overturned, the problem is solved? All those sociopaths on the loose, running around completely unmanaged, maybe even organizing in secret, will not be a significant problem in your newly corrected society, ever?

Why? Does it have to be simple? Is it simple to defeat anything of massive size and organization?



At some point, the multiple environments will be so toxic that people will crave for something better and begin to act upon that desire ... whether they know how to act, where to act, or when exactly to act. The wasteland will be equivalent to dry timber and the slightest spark will get things alighted. As for the problem being solved, that answer lies on the other side of critical mass.

In any event, I don't look to solve problems before their time. Today's problem is full spectrum dominance. Let's solve that first. Once the current system collapses, fresh problems will impose themselves upon us. Humanity is an ongoing adventure. There are no solutions. Just management of situations between points of time and points of evolution.



Read above.

In any event, eternal vigilance is all we have to save the species. If we look for permanent solutions, we will be disappointed. If the sine wave teaches us anything, things work in cycles. Let's stop this current push for full spectrum dominance ... and then get prepared for the next push with better checks and balances. Hopefully, we can increase the wavelength and period between cycles. And perhaps that's all that progress really holds for us still wriggling on the mortal coil, namely, increasing the wavelength and period between cycles.

I don't want to get too abstract, but think of cycles as time fractals. Maybe full spectrum dominance started as a toddler with the first small empire in a crib. And perhaps over time, bigger and bigger empires booned and then ruined. Perhaps we are staring down the end of the current cycle and the biggest empire yet. And when it is defeated, and I have confidence it will be defeated, the cycle of progressively larger empires will repeat itself starting from the crib again. Perhaps that is the self-contained solution; and our duty in 2014 is to defeat the final empire of the cycle.


Pax

No. That's my point -- it's not going to be simple. The problem is very complex, so the solution is not likely to be simple.


I disagree. There are solutions. Because humans oversimplify and tend to think along binary lines, they often can't see the solutions.


No, we can have more than that. Humans are problem-solvers. It's what we do. Good design can alleviate eternal vigilance.


If we look for long-term solutions, we will be rewarded.


Are we a sine wave? Hell, no! There are cycles in the world, and there are non-cycles. Don't assume cycles are all there is.


OK, how?

Raising critical awareness to a complex problem implies complexity. So why did you even bring in the notion of simplicity?



A solution must fit the problem. Inefficient thought processes are a given part of the problem. So the solution must assume the burden of those minds that must implement it. Ideal solutions won't work where the problems are understood by less than ideal humans. Management between points of time and points of evolution is not an ideal solution, but it is the solution that best fits the given problem.



The system purchases many of the finest problem solvers for its own ends ... using the flytrap of K-12 and the brier patch of graduate education. The vast majority of rabbits sprinting on the racetracks of science and technology ... are working for carrots offered by the system. History has shown that these carrot-munchers - as a rule - will only attempt to solve problems faced by the system and not those problems designed by the system. In short, they will solve the problems according to the needs of the system. In the case of a corrupted system, the needs of a corrupted system.

I prefer taking the problems directly to the people and let them ruminate on it ... that is what raising critical awareness is all about.



Looking for longterm solutions is essentially the same as extending the wavelength and period of cycles. To finish the thought, shortterm solutions are essentially reducing the wavelength and period of cycles. The cycle of BIC-lighter production, consumption, destruction and new production. As it were.



Cycles are the rule. Noncycles are the exceptions. The cycle of seasons. The cycle of waveforms. The cycle of homeostasis with feedback vectors pointing back against the motion. The lunar cycle. The cycle of planets.
The human life cycle of parent2child2parent2child2 parent ... Too, the cycle of empires reset by ruins ... and the cycle of progressively bigger empires reset by ruins. Etc. Etc.



Raising critical awareness, arguably the most challenging thing to do given that we are living in a virtual Brigadoon ... where time stands still for a hundred dozen moons ... which is why I am amused that you think it is that simple.

Explaining the theory of the Bohr atom (with deBroglie wave implications) ... to a Justin Bieber superfan ... is probably much easier.

Pax

You brought it up, with your simple solution. You said all we have to do is awaken a portion of the people, and they will take corrective action. That's a simple-minded solution when we already know from the Milgram experiment that 65% of the people will allow authority to override their conscience.


Oh, really? How did you determine that?


Well that doesn't help your solution at all, if the best problem solvers are working to do the bidding of the sociopaths.


No it's not. You need to get off your sine wave analogy, which is not analogous to anything that we are talking about. You think everything can be translated back to a simple mathematical concept. That is just asinine oversimplification.


And there are plenty of them, so you are foolish to assume everything should be treated as a cycle.


Raising critical awareness does not necessarily translate into corrective action. Corrective action does not necessarily translate into a solution, much less a long-term solution.

So far, your "solution" is a bust. Can you do better than "awaken enough people and they will solve the problem"? Psychologically, you only have about 9% of the people that can even be awakened. You are just not operating in the real world, Zook.

UncleZook wrote:
"... at least a critical mass of the people need to awaken ... before they will take corrective action."

I said we need to awaken people to critical mass but I never used the qualifier "all" ... you injected that in as per your tendency to expand everything to absolutes, and reduce everything to absolutes.



By observing. Those problems that Man has been unable to solve, he usually ends up managing with approximate solutions, with temporary solutions, with patch fixes. That has been the rule of man's fiddling with the big riddles, problems much larger than he can possibly understand. Indeed, much of science (both behavioral and the hard stuff) ... are approximations tailored for intervals of time and the existing state of evolution. If we are to be bold with the truth, I'm not sure Man has solved a single big problem yet; and his successes with the small problems however encouraging, are hardly noteworthy. Given this very real perspective, management of problems using the best available approximations ... is really the only fruitful course out there. By default, the best one.

It's not any different for the problem of full spectrum dominance ... we will never solve it. Once we collapse it this time around, it will start a new cycle of waxing again.



I said the system purchases many. I didn't say most.



The sine wave is ubiquitous in Nature. Anything that ties back to it is a good analogy. Mathematics underwrites everything. There is nothing simple about mathematics except for those that don't understand it and subsequently deride it. Mathematics underwrites this very virtual reality we call the internet ... an interverse, if you will.
Mathematics is part of the determination ... which implies the existence of other parts. The problem with you, Chico, is that you almost have a genetic tendency to break the whole (pick a whole, any whole) into its parts ... then focus on a single part to grandstand. Hope you find better days in your journey to the center of the truths.



There you go again, shifting context. I never used the qualifier "everything". Most things are not everything. Rules are not exceptions.



You must hold the apple and recognize it as such ... before you bite it and extract its value. Critical awareness informs both individual awareness and collective awareness. When we are dealing with our own awareness, we can merely make an effort to inform ourselves. When we are dealing with the collective, we need to raise it in others. What happens after that, no one can predict. Awareness and action are two different things. Awareness can trigger action. Or it can trigger indifference. Or it can trigger fear and greater retreat. Some want guarantees that don't exist. And if they don't get them, they will abandon the pursuit of critical awareness to chase down their impetuosity.

With critical awareness, there is potential for action, potential for indifference, and potential for fear and retreat. Two out of three ain't good ... but the one remaining holds the promise of delivery. By contrast, redirecting things to sociopathy has proven itself over millennia ... and in the more recent millennia, to be a fiddler's tune worthy of Nero.



The awakening will begin in earnest when the grocery shells run dry. Even if only 9% can be classified as critical thinkers, we are all classified as eaters. And that ... is the first real world, my friend. If the 9% do their work and raise critical awareness, the remaining will follow on the coat-tails of momentum, some even without fully understanding. Mob dynamics begin with a few sharp minds and end with many quenched bodies.

So the battle is really between the percentage of elites (and minions) versus the percentage of critical thinkers (and the rest of humanity). The rest of humanity is the largest potential mob out there, outweighing the minion mob by a huge factor. The RoH mob doesn't require complex explanations of culpability ... a few obvious examples of culpability is more than sufficient. Indeed, teh attacks on 9/11/2001 ... is one such example. The elites are very worried about how deep the knowledgebase extends into the events of 9/11/2001. Meanwhile, the RoH is just waiting for the right moment to vent its anger. So far the grocery shelves remain stocked. And that is the only thing saving the elites right now, for anger can be held in check indefinitely, as long as the people have food in their bellies.

Pax

So, if there is no "all", then there must be more to your solution than what you stated, namely awaken a "critical mass of the people" and "they will take corrective action". So what is the rest of your solution, if that's not "all"?


So now you're saying this bankster thing is an unsolvable problem?


So now we're just patching things up, because the problem is unsolvable, and this is the best we can do?


I didn't say "most" either. I basically said your solution just got even more unlikely.


So we can say your discernment wavers between appalling and excellent at regular intervals?


Like you breaking the banksters out from the sociopaths and focusing on them?


No, but you completely dismissed the exceptions, which is essentially the same thing.


So once again, you are saying your solution is not even a solution, it's just an unpredictable event. Nice.


That's an argument? Would you let me argue "By contrast, redirecting things to awakening people has proven itself over millennia ... and in the more recent millennia, to be a fiddler's tune worthy of Nero"? What BS.


So if that were true, why do you think the banksters would allow grocery shelves to run dry? Aren't they pushing GMOs so that cheap food will be plentiful? It sounds to me like they know the importance of keeping those sheeple bellies full.

Really, Zook, you're making yourself look foolish.