You must be going insane, Zook, to resort to this kind of nonsense. First, 95% poll results are not impossible. I've run several polls on the various forums that garnered over 90%. Second, there were no deep-pocketed financiers on the "Yes" side of Proposition 37, because it was essentially the ordinary people against the giant corporations. Mercola was indeed the biggest contributor on the Yes side with $1.1 million. Monsanto on the "No" side contributed over six times that amount ($7.1 million), and there were eleven other corporations on the "No" side that contributed more than Mercola. Why don't those deep-pocketed financiers blast your eyes open? I think it is because you have a gatekeeping agenda to fulfill.


More gatekeeping nonsense. It's not unusual for one side to hold the truth. Whistle-blowers often fall in this category. When one side holds the truth, calling them extremists is disingenuous, a gatekeeping tactic. It has been clearly demonstrated that the GMO companies do not hold the truth. They are profit-oriented and use every dirty trick imaginable, including controlled opposition websites like GM Compass, a site that tricked you and your vaunted discernment. So your claim that "the truth is somewhere in between" is pure gatekeeping bunk.


Put up or shut up. Prove your allegations. Show us how they are being deceptive. Otherwise, you are just doing your usual gatekeeping.


Next you'll be telling me that Truth is just controlled opposition to Lies in "a contrived dichotomy created for duty in division and conquest." Your gatekeeping just gets more and more visible.

“What is real? How do you define, ‘real’? If you’re talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.” — Morpheus, in The Matrix, 1999


Your problem, UncleZook, assuming you are an unwitting gatekeeper, is that you are far too certain, and you rely too much on other people to do your thinking for you. You have demonstrated many times on this forum how much of a parrot you are, including your parroting of the misleading GM Compass website propaganda. But in your defense, you are simply doing what almost everyone is doing. It seems we are all parrots to some degree.

Suppose Jon Rappoport and Barbara Peterson believe what they write. Does that make it real? Or have they also been manipulated by the Matrix into a false certainty that seems real? Suppose the plan of the GMO companies is to keep the opposition off balance and confused by shifting the issue from banning GM foods to labeling GM foods, and then back to banning, going back and forth, so that nothing concrete is ever accomplished to stop GM foods.

I agree banning GM foods is the better solution in the current environment, but the problem is deeper than that. Our sociopathic system is the problem. Genetic manipulation of food crops could be used to great benefit in the proper environment, where selfish profit is not the driving factor. But as long as we have a sociopathic system, no solution will ever take us where we want to go.


Thanks for the false accusation. I encourage examining every source of information, but with the understanding that too much certainty is as crippling as too much uncertainty.

The problem with you Chico, assuming that you may - against overwhelming evidence - just be an unwitting gatekeeper ... is that you obey too much sci-fi and not enough science. Your brain is inundated with tales from the fantastic and you make no effort to separate fanfare from reality. The above quote from some character named Morpheus (whatever happened to the days when mythological Greek figures were just that??) ... is quintessential reductio ad absurdum.



You even resort to naked distortions. FWIW, I arrived my theory of Prop 37 being a power pyramid scam to shift the public discourses from issues of toxicity to issues of the market ... well before I stumbled on Farm Wars (which you happened to apprise me of only recently). To wit, my intuition already made the theory before it was corroborated by Farm Warm contributors. Parrots mimic, they don't corroborate nor are they corroborated themselves.



Not everyone has been manipulated by the Matrix as much as you have been, Chico. There are degrees of manipulation. And degrees in discernment. Those with higher discernment are usually held hostage by those susceptible to greater manipulation. Call it regression to the mean, as it were.



I argue in the given narrative of power pyramid tyranny. Ideal narratives should be broached when reality approaches the ideal. Right now, however, reality is heading away from the ideal ... and therefore, discussion of ideal solutions is a cop out, prevarication, deconstructivism, navel-gazing, etc., and is virtually tantamount to playing Nero's fiddle.



The right amount of certainty is required. And so far, with your prevarications, we are seeing the wrong amount of uncertainty.

Pax Chico de la Mancha

Well, UncleZook, if Andy were here, he would probably point out that your post, as is often the case, is just more "mind-numbing drivel". I thought it might be an interesting exercise to investigate just why that is.

I have quoted below what you wrote in your post. The parts where you are derogatory towards me are in red, and the parts where you are praising yourself are in green. Anything else is in black.

Seeing how little black text there is, and seeing how uninformative that black text is, I have a better understanding of Andy's powers of observation.

Yes, Andy, your twindependent thinking buddy. We get it, Chico. You have no arguments to make. Which is why you circumvent the fact I was addressing your distortions of my arguments, and have chosen instead to pile more ad hominems my way (Draggie Maggie withstanding).

You have the audacity to continue the character attack even after I was parodying your usage of unwitting gatekeeper. But you're too gone in your mind to recognize the subtle parody.

Listen, when I declared United Peeps to be a gatekeeping website ... I did not make that accusation lightly. It was made after giving undue patience to your psychopathic level of prevarication and other gatekeeping games. So really it doesn't matter what you say from hereon in. This website is done as a forum.

I'm only hanging around because even disinformation sites make accommodation for truths in the mixture. I think I carry my truths with enough clarity that the two or three nonregular guests that visit this gating grating cheese joint every week (not including the professorial penguin on an antarctic ice floe, lost at sea and in thought while surfing the internet on an I-phone) ... are sufficiently rewarded for their time expenditure.
[...]


Pax Chico de la Mancha

No black text? Darn -- nothing to respond to that hasn't already been addressed here.

Pathetic display.

Seeing an administrator of a forum reducing purpose to playing with crayons and coloring books.

Chicodoodoo ------------> Bucketed!!

Pax To Idle Purpose

ps: I considered making a new thread, "Chicodoodoo - Bucketed!!" ... but then, I'd be just as bad as Chico, wot?

"Pathetic display." (Your words)

Here's a simple thought experiment to demonstrate the controlled opposition of GMWatch.

First of all, one needs to understand that by shifting the public discourse from issues of science (e.g. GMO toxicity) to issues of market (e.g. choice via labeling) ... one is essentially removing a layer of protection for the lower economic classes, e.g. those who live on minimum living wages. GMO foods have deep pockets (and a nefarious agenda) financing their production and distribution. Suppose there are two loaves of bread, one made with GMO ingredients, the other with conventional ingredients. The GMO loaf will be offered at a noncompetitive lower rate because it is the new kid on the block - and because it has deeper pockets. The conventional local bakery will not be able to compete with the GMO rate. A person on minimum living wage will not care for labels so much as they will for price reduction. They will purchase the lower-priced commodity and keep their faith with the FDA authority that allows foods into the marketplace ... as a rule. Ergo, the most susceptible consumers to GMO foods will be the minimum living wage consumers, and the advance of GMO-labeling agendas will not make much difference to them as their primary concern will be food prices. Moreover, this behavior will be copied right through the bulk of the middleclass because, as a rule, consumers will defer toxicity issues to the FDA and concentrate more on price savings.

So who really benefits by the labeling laws endorsed by Prop 37, GMWatch, Just Label It?
Short answer: GMO-producing Greeks, e.g. who will roll a Trojan Horse into the marketplace ... both to deliver profits back to Athens and to compromise the health of the Trojan middle and lower classes.

But that is not the gedanken experiment. The following is.

Supposing we have four categories as such:
pro-GMOs, pro-Prop37 ... pGpP
pro-GMOs, anti-Prop37 ... pGaP
anti-GMOs, pro-Prop37 ... aGpP
anti-GMOs, anti-Prop37 ... aGaP

Now which category best fits the following organizations and individuals:
GMwatch, GMCompass, Just Label It, Monsanto, Greeks in a Trojan horse belly, Alex Bogusky, Dr. Mercola, Chico, Zook

pGpP: Greeks in a Trojan horse belly
pGaP: Monsanto, GMCompass
aGpP: GMWatch, Just Label It, Alex Bogusky, Dr. Mercola, Chico
aGaP: Zook

The curious thing here, is that there is no way of telling aGpP and pGpP apart ... and likewise, pGaP and aGaP. For the finer distinctions, one must go to the width and depth of the arguments made by the respective category members. There is no way to confuse the avuncular guy with either Monsanto or GMCompass ... unless, of course, one engages in character assassination and what not. But the same can't be said with guys like Alex Bogusky who has had a lifelong love affair with establishment media and is now supposed to be the leader of the antiEstablishment and the common people. I mean, if ever a Greek rode in inside a Trojan Horse, there's your guy Hirshberg of JLT has already been shown to be stained with establishment dye. GMWatch and Dr. Mercola do not engender much confidence because they (wittingly or unwittingly) ignore the logical consequences of GMO-labelling on the middle and lower classes (that I outlined in my opening paragraph). And Chico ... well, we may also have a Geek inside the wooden belly alongside the sundry Greeks.



Pax To Deeper Cognitive Processes

ps: J'accuse GMWatch of being in the duty of the establishment - on balance. To wit, one drop of poison is all that is required to make the water in the barrel undrinkable. Prop37 is that drop of poison for GMWatch.

ps2: Support for GMO-labeling laws, in general, is that drop of poison for many an otherwise good water barrel ... for that shifts the public discourse over GMO foods from issues of science and health (e.g. toxicity) to issues of the market (e.g. commerce and false consumer choice).

Your deluded thought experiments just don't cut it, Zook. You have to bring real evidence to the table. Where is your evidence that GMWatch is controlled opposition and not genuine opposition?

The reason your thought experiments don't cut it is that you are a sophisticated binary-thinking simpleton. Your flawed conclusions derived from faulty "black or white" premises have been exposed multiple times in this forum, yet you continue to run your con-game here nonetheless.

As with all good gatekeeping propaganda that flows from your silvery tongue, there is truth in there somewhere that you have twisted to fit your desired agenda. In this case, the truth concerns money. As long as people will do anything for money, the controllers of money will get people to do anything. They will get us to fight their wars, eat their GM food, use their "medicines", believe their propaganda, buy their products, destroy our environment, and sow the seeds of our own destruction, all because we measure value in terms of their money. When enough of us stop measuring value in terms of their money, things will change dramatically.

Can you see how you are part of the problem, and not part of the solution?